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Post by meldrew on Jul 25, 2012 19:21:28 GMT 1
Whilst doing a bit of research on some old cases this report from 1984 caught my attention. PILOT REPORT “24 Aug 84 Ipswich – UK Reportable Accident – A/C [Aircraft] struck object in cruise. Propeller, fuselage, cowling & control runs damaged. The A/C was flying in slight turbulence when a bump was felt. Just before descent the right hand engine control was found to be seized so an asymmetric approach & landing was executed. On inspection it was apparent that the left propeller had struck an unidentified object, propelling it through the cabin roof, with a piece exiting through a window. There were several holes in the fuselage & damage to the engine, aileron & rudder trim cables. Three pieces of foreign metallic object were found, including a small cylindrical magnet. The UFO has not been identified. No information received concerning nature or origin of UFO. Read more: uforesearchnetwork.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=witness&action=display&thread=1321#ixzz21eqqcL00now I have some questions. 1) how has what is in effect an air accident not had the publicity we would expect. 2) why no pilot name published. 3)what happened to the 3 pieces of foreign object reportedly recovered. 4)was there a CAA investigation about this incident. I think there should be some information out there regarding this incident, CAA investigation reports for example, I would have thought that this case would be more well known and also would have been picked over endlessly by the big name researchers, I will have a dig about and see what comes up, so far on the net all I've found is the same report posted above, come on judge time for some research
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uforn
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Post by uforn on Jul 25, 2012 19:34:22 GMT 1
Can you link to the exact post mate ? there's a link to post of every post at the bottom.
I think a good place to start would be by contacting the AAIB which is the UK's Air Accidents Investigation Branch. They can be contacted here: enquiries@aaib.gov.uk
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Post by meldrew on Jul 25, 2012 20:02:24 GMT 1
Can you link to the exact post mate ? there's a link to post of every post at the bottom. I think a good place to start would be by contacting the AAIB which is the UK's Air Accidents Investigation Branch. They can be contacted here: enquiries@aaib.gov.uk cheers for the link, the report posted is from pilot &UFO the Brit files by Nick Redfern, reply no 22 on thread, link to post function didn't work.
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Post by uforn on Jul 25, 2012 20:10:14 GMT 1
Can you link to the exact post mate ? there's a link to post of every post at the bottom. I think a good place to start would be by contacting the AAIB which is the UK's Air Accidents Investigation Branch. They can be contacted here: enquiries@aaib.gov.uk cheers for the link, the report posted is from pilot &UFO the Brit files by Nick Redfern, reply no 22 on thread, link to post function didn't work. I wonder if there's anything in the Govs UFO files on this?
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Post by uforn on Jul 25, 2012 21:30:01 GMT 1
The occurence number for this incident is 198402680 the plane was a BN2a Trislander. You will have to use this number in any correspondence to the AAIB.
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Post by meldrew on Jul 25, 2012 22:08:13 GMT 1
The occurence number for this incident is 198402680 the plane was a BN2a Trislander. You will have to use this number in any correspondence to the AAIB. nice one judge, I have looked at the web site and it looks straight forward, they want some personal details I'm not happy about giving but such is life. you know if this has been investigated by the AAIB then somewhere are the 3 pieces of foreign objects, any idea how long this sort of request takes, if its weeks/months we may have to think of other routes to take.
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uforn
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Post by uforn on Jul 26, 2012 12:17:59 GMT 1
The occurence number for this incident is 198402680 the plane was a BN2a Trislander. You will have to use this number in any correspondence to the AAIB. nice one judge, I have looked at the web site and it looks straight forward, they want some personal details I'm not happy about giving but such is life. you know if this has been investigated by the AAIB then somewhere are the 3 pieces of foreign objects, any idea how long this sort of request takes, if its weeks/months we may have to think of other routes to take. You should get a reply within a few days I would have thought mate.
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Post by meldrew on Jul 26, 2012 13:23:02 GMT 1
I have sent the request, we now wait and see, where did you get the occurrence number and aircraft type from ?
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Post by uforn on Jul 26, 2012 13:43:55 GMT 1
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Post by uforn on Jul 26, 2012 14:08:13 GMT 1
From what I can gather on this case is that the information available was obtained through the FOIA.
We dont have any names of witnesses ie: the Pilot. All that seems to be there is whats in the op.
Did you ask for the pilots name in your email ?
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Post by chrisperridas on Jul 27, 2012 3:28:09 GMT 1
Did you review this site? This is apparently the answer to the FOIA request and lists numerous accidents similar to the one you mention. Not the one the FOIA request was for. It is far too much for me to read, and I don't pretend to understand it. www.caa.co.uk/docs/1357/F0001311ReplyLetter.pdf
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Post by uforn on Jul 27, 2012 11:56:57 GMT 1
Did you review this site? This is apparently the answer to the FOIA request and lists numerous accidents similar to the one you mention. Not the one the FOIA request was for. It is far too much for me to read, and I don't pretend to understand it. www.caa.co.uk/docs/1357/F0001311ReplyLetter.pdfThanks for the link chris I must have missed that one. Ive had a look over it and found the response, it doesnt tell us anything of any significance. They say the foreign objects and still being pursued. Im not sure of the date that this doc was published so I wonder if they have found out what the object was yet ?
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Post by meldrew on Jul 27, 2012 12:20:09 GMT 1
I have received the document, as you say its pretty much the same, theres a warning about about privacy and copying and strictly forbidden to post it lol so how do we follow up the inquiry into "the foreign objects", where were they taken to be analysed and where are they now.
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Post by uforn on Jul 27, 2012 12:24:59 GMT 1
Can you email me the doc mate?
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Post by uforn on Jul 27, 2012 13:53:29 GMT 1
so how do we follow up the inquiry into "the foreign objects", where were they taken to be analysed and where are they now. You will have to contact them again and ask for information reguarding the foreign objects mate, leave it with me and Ill pm you what to write
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Post by meldrew on Jul 27, 2012 15:03:49 GMT 1
na I don't think they have any more info to give out, here's a piece from the accompaning e.mail
Thank you for your enquiry. The date of the incident is 24 / 8 / 1984 Please find attached the AIB Report (from an Aircraft Accident Report form submitted by the pilot) published in AIB Bulletin 10/84. This is the only information the AAIB holds on the incident. Regards, Shelley
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Post by uforn on Jul 27, 2012 15:18:14 GMT 1
Ok this is going to be harder than I thought, if this is all the AAIB has then we may need to file a FOIA reguarding more information in relation to the foreign objects and the orign & analysis of them.
This might take months and I really dont think well get anything that would be usefull.
But its a good learning curve which will help in future research as Ive never filed a FOIA before.
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Post by meldrew on Jul 27, 2012 18:14:41 GMT 1
Ok this is going to be harder than I thought, if this is all the AAIB has then we may need to file a FOIA reguarding more information in relation to the foreign objects and the orign & analysis of them. This might take months and I really dont think well get anything that would be usefull. But its a good learning curve which will help in future research as Ive never filed a FOIA before. yes I agree, I feel sure there is some information out there on this, I can't believe this hasn't been picked up on before now.
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Post by meldrew on Jul 29, 2012 8:28:21 GMT 1
The UK Air Accidents Investigation Branch (AAIB) is part of the Department for Transport and is responsible for the investigation of civil aircraft accidents and serious incidents within the UK and its overseas territories. www.aaib.gov.uk/home/index.cfmso they are responsible for the investigation into this, then they will have the findings of the investigation, lets fire off some e.mails reminding these agencies of their obligations.
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Post by uforn on Jul 29, 2012 15:08:31 GMT 1
The UK Air Accidents Investigation Branch (AAIB) is part of the Department for Transport and is responsible for the investigation of civil aircraft accidents and serious incidents within the UK and its overseas territories. www.aaib.gov.uk/home/index.cfmso they are responsible for the investigation into this, then they will have the findings of the investigation, lets fire off some e.mails reminding these agencies of their obligations. Yes I already know that mate, but if they are telling you that is all they have then it might be possible that the analysis of the foreign objects have not been made public therefore a FOIA request is needed. You have to file a FOIA by letter and it takes around 20 days or so.
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Post by meldrew on Jul 29, 2012 16:05:44 GMT 1
I went through the formal reports at AAIB for the 80s as some cases take a few years, anyway there is no formal report for this accident on the AAIB formal reports archive, maybe this case was taken out of their hands and passed on to another agency, who would that agency be ?
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Post by uforn on Jul 29, 2012 16:22:14 GMT 1
I went through the formal reports at AAIB for the 80s as some cases take a few years, anyway there is no formal report for this accident on the AAIB formal reports archive, maybe this case was taken out of their hands and passed on to another agency, who would that agency be ? That I dont know mate and from what Ive looked at concerning a FOI request, is that you have to get it to the correct department. The correct department for this enquiry is the ASSI (Air Safety Support International) The address is as follows: Enquiries (FOI) Air Safety Support International Floor 2, Northgate House 115 High Street Crawley West Sussex RH10 1FY UK This is where we need to start
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Post by meldrew on Jul 30, 2012 14:44:24 GMT 1
I've scoured the archives of the local news paper, East Anglian Daily Times, which is based in Ipswich, most UFO articles concern the Rendlesham Forest incident and a few other sightings, not a jot on this case, local ufologist Brenda Butler who was one of the trio involved in the breaking of the Rendlesham incident with Jenny Randles quotes that there is a portal in the skies above suffolk that allows alien craft to enter our skies, I have no comment on that lol
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Post by uforn on Jul 30, 2012 15:21:47 GMT 1
I've scoured the archives of the local news paper, East Anglian Daily Times, which is based in Ipswich, most UFO articles concern the Rendlesham Forest incident and a few other sightings, not a jot on this case, local ufologist Brenda Butler who was one of the trio involved in the breaking of the Rendlesham incident with Jenny Randles quotes that there is a portal in the skies above suffolk that allows alien craft to enter our skies, I have no comment on that lol Thats not much help at all mate, but it was worth a try. Getting back on to a FOI request, first off you need to find the correct department to file the request to (see above post^^^) This is the correct department to file a request to in this case. Next you need to tell them exactly what your requesting. ie: in this case, where did the foreign objects go to get analysed, who conducted the tests, what were the conclusions of the tests. This has to be done by letter, it cant be done by email. Check the archives of already released info here: www.homeoffice.gov.uk/about-us/freedom-of-information/released-information1/( I feel weve already done this by asking the AAIB ) Also check out the publication scheme to see what info they provide and whether or not you have to pay for it Link to publication scheme: www.homeoffice.gov.uk/about-us/freedom-of-information/publications-scheme/These are just a couple of examples, much more needs to go into this. These are the basic requirements as outlined on the official Home Office website here: www.homeoffice.gov.uk/about-us/freedom-of-information/asking-for-info/
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Post by belle on Jul 30, 2012 19:45:50 GMT 1
Please keep in mind that I have no idea on how all this works or how you guys go about getting info.
Could you ask any kin you have that is in the military that can point you in the right direction to find out where the info is on the object that struck the plane?
Maybe they sent part of the objects to a certain University to be examined?
The plane wasn't that awful far from Amsterdam when it was struck. It would be on their radar. Would they have requested information?
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Post by meldrew on Jul 30, 2012 22:20:08 GMT 1
LyddAir Britten-Norman BN-2A Mk.3-2 Trislander G-OJAV c/n 1024. ex G-BDOS. Built in 1976. this Trislander is the same year of make and G-BDOS was the registration number of the Trislander in the report, this picture taken in 2003, this must be the aircraft involved. Admin Note:Edit to fix image
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Post by meldrew on Jul 31, 2012 7:50:25 GMT 1
UFOs and the governments of the USA and UK by Armen Victorian From Lobster 32 Researchers who ask for pertinent records from the US Air Force about UFOs are provided with a 'Fact Sheet' which states that since the closure of Project Blue Book in 1974, the USAF has no interest in, and does not study, the subject. The USAF information pack refers inquirers to various non-governmental UFO research organizations which are closely monitored, and, at times, directed by various US intelligence and military agencies. (1) The men from the Ministry In Britain, Air Staff 2 (a), a desk in the Ministry of Defence, manned by junior civil servants such as Nick Pope, J. Palmer, Owen Hartop, Kerry Philpott, and Ralph Noyes, respond to public inquiries. The knowledge of these individuals is limited and their responses consequently sometimes inaccurate. Contrary to claims made by Air Staff 2 (a) that they are privy to all UFO reports, there is a component within the MOD which deals with more serious aspects of this subject. On October 23 1989, in the course of one of my investigations, I contacted this particular MOD section. After the preliminary conversation I was asked if I was prepared to sell my investigation report to them; and later in the course of the conversation, when I suggested sharing information, citing the national security aspects, I was asked if I was prepared to sign a security agreement concerning this issue. I was further asked to prepare a proposal and submit it to them. When I inquired about some landing reports, I was asked to specify the date of the particular cases I had in mind. Although this is a component of the MOD, it is not situated in Whitehall. Neither is it Defence Intelligence 55 (DI55), though sources within DI55 have been helpful in other investigations of mine. Though several individuals in the UK who have witnessed serious UFO cases have been visited by government officials, the MOD has repeatedly denied the existence of such officials. Sometimes in uniform but mostly in civilian clothes, these officials have approached witnesses asking them not to discuss what they have seen with the public or the media. UFO folklore has termed them the Men in Black (MIB). The section in charge of such investigations is Aerospace Intelligence within the MOD. The MOD, and Air Staff 2(a) in particular, have been the chief focus of the search for British information on UFOs. But examination of the MOD's old files shows the absence of any Royal Navy reports. There is also a component within the Admiralty in charge of UFO cases reported at sea, about which researchers have little knowledge. I have also dealt with this component, though I do not know its name. www.lobster-magazine.co.uk/articles/l32ufos.htmbasically there are compartments within compartments when it comes to getting any information,
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Post by meldrew on Jul 31, 2012 12:09:05 GMT 1
Please keep in mind that I have no idea on how all this works or how you guys go about getting info.Could you ask any kin you have that is in the military that can point you in the right direction to find out where the info is on the object that struck the plane?
Maybe they sent part of the objects to a certain University to be examined?
The plane wasn't that awful far from Amsterdam when it was struck. It would be on their radar. Would they have requested information?
thanks for the input belle, I would like to see more members doing research on here, we that is me and judge (uforn) are deliberately posting the way we are going about looking for info on this case, so members here can actually see what its like, usually another big name researcher has already picked up on an incident and has done all the work for us, as judge says this could take ages to get any results, the more info gathered and the more ideas from anyone can only help
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belle
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Post by belle on Jul 31, 2012 15:44:38 GMT 1
UFOs and the governments of the USA and UK by Armen Victorian From Lobster 32 Researchers who ask for pertinent records from the US Air Force about UFOs are provided with a 'Fact Sheet' which states that since the closure of Project Blue Book in 1974, the USAF has no interest in, and does not study, the subject. The USAF information pack refers inquirers to various non-governmental UFO research organizations which are closely monitored, and, at times, directed by various US intelligence and military agencies. (1) Any idea what agencies are monitored/directed by the US Gov't?
I applaud you and uforn for doing all you do. I do not pretend to know about it because I don't. Which is why i talk/question alot.
With kids starting school in a few days, I'll have 8 hrs a day 5 days a week for 9 months without much to do. So if you guys want me to do something for you just holler.
Hypothetically(sp) if someone were to have kin in different branches of the military who worked in well lets call it 'communications' wouldn't it be easier to ask them to look for something or a direction to go towards instead of writing the letters to gov't agencies or airforce? Or do you need that official letter stating they know nothing?
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Post by uforn on Jul 31, 2012 15:51:26 GMT 1
basically there are compartments within compartments when it comes to getting any information, Yes I also know this to mate, this is why this enquiry will take months if not years. The department I posted above is where to start, we need to get a letter sorted, if you write one and I write one well combine the best of both then file an FOI request. See where we get.
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