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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2012 22:59:20 GMT 1
Hello again,
The text in Jenny's book said that the inspection of the aircraft and discovery of the holes and "debris" actually took place in Holland. Any Dutch Forum members care to take that end of things? On the NTSB end the monthly database lists only the U.S. and/or it's territories or posseessions. So, no U.K. Sorry.
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Post by meldrew on Aug 11, 2012 8:03:45 GMT 1
I think this thread needs a sort out, there's bits and pieces all over the place. I had a thought the other day, one of us join a pilots forum, we might get some answers to questions regarding aspects of this case, I would like to know what happened upon landing ect and procedure, who was first to inspect the aircraft, where was it repaired, actually with the name hiflier I reckon it to be you lol what do you guys think ?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2012 12:54:42 GMT 1
Hello meldrew,
Good call, If you can see your way to sifting through the small details and put a better picture together WRT the various sources it would be helpful. Such as: one version stated that the damage didn't occur until 3 minutes after the initial "bump" felt in the controls. Kondair closed it's doors in 1989 but in 1986 one of their Trislanders had an inexperienced pilot flying the same route to Amsterdam and crashed losing the pilot in the process. The cause was a wind-sheer event in which the pilot over-corrected and the the plane never recover it's trim. Sad case as the pilot was young I believe.
Anyway, I'll take up your suggestion and scratch arround the pilot Forums to see if the discussion already exists first. It seems like I can join Forums in my sleep these days LOL.
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Post by meldrew on Aug 11, 2012 13:27:50 GMT 1
nice one hiflier, I would suggest you box clever don't mention UFO they will probably run a mile, we can think up some intelligent sounding questions without raising suspicion that we are raving loony tin foil hat wearing eejits ;D
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2012 15:17:56 GMT 1
Hello meldrew, Thanks! Okay, I believe this to be a significant find: forum.keypublishing.com/archive/index.php?t-115099.htmlThe dailogue is fairly recent and give credence to Martin Uzzells photo in the link. ALSO, these guys were THERE on the cargo loading end. What do you say? Not only that, it's virtually the only place saying anything about it of all the forums I checked.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2012 16:13:57 GMT 1
Hello All,
The "fragments" were taken to, and analysed by, the Defence Evaluation Research Agency in Farnborough. If it's govenmental then perhaps it will fall under the FOIA.
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Post by meldrew on Aug 11, 2012 16:16:01 GMT 1
interesting forum there hiflier, my god there are some boring dudes out there, I noticed that the mention of G-BODS and UFO was totally ignored, and the link to ufoligie, that site used to be one of the best on the net for info and it had very little about this case, good researching there hilier.
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Post by uforn on Aug 11, 2012 16:23:53 GMT 1
Hello All, The "fragments" were taken to, and analysed by, the Defence Evaluation Research Agency in Farnborough. If it's govenmental then perhaps it will fall under the FOIA. Nice find hiflier Ive contacted Jenny Randles to see what she can tell me on this case.
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Post by meldrew on Aug 11, 2012 16:45:44 GMT 1
Hello All, The "fragments" were taken to, and analysed by, the Defence Evaluation Research Agency in Farnborough. If it's govenmental then perhaps it will fall under the FOIA. goood stuff, can you go through with us how you found this out, oh and I've had a cider while having some company around, this has caused me to suffrer temporary dyslexia which is why I called you hillier on a previous post ;D
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2012 16:49:01 GMT 1
Hello meldrew,
I agree the incident was only mentioned in passing but the point is do you think it worth it to join and pick up the dialogue with these guys? At least one of them gave UFO links so he might be the one most interested. I just thought it would help tie things up in a nice neat package to have all avenues on record. If you have time to log the progress here then this site and potentia dialogue could be part of the listing of source data. I expect an investivative chronology would be the best format. Then the whole thing would read well when added to the uforn list of research items either as "case closed'" or otherwise.
BTW, I Thank you and uforn for the kind words.
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Post by meldrew on Aug 11, 2012 16:52:35 GMT 1
Hello All, The "fragments" were taken to, and analysed by, the Defence Evaluation Research Agency in Farnborough. If it's govenmental then perhaps it will fall under the FOIA. Nice find hiflier Ive contacted Jenny Randles to see what she can tell me on this case. if you have linked this thread to her we better clean up all the he/she jokes, lol this site is littered with them lmfao
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Post by uforn on Aug 11, 2012 16:56:39 GMT 1
Ill clean it up now meldrew
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2012 17:00:36 GMT 1
Hello meldrew, Hoo boy, there goes my job security around here! BTW i put the plug in the jug 12 yrs. ago.; sometimes I wish I hadn't LOL. I, like you, have done many google searches. The last two I tried to be more specific out of some minor frustrations. I typed in: "kondair trislander incidents archive forum" and got the Forum guys. Then I typed in: "pilots flying for kondair" and got this: squib.homestead.com/eti-24.pdfA very interesting paper in and of itself. The fact that the research facility was mentioned in it was pure happenstance. Do I get to keep my job ? My curiosity though is this: How did THEY get the info?
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Post by uforn on Aug 11, 2012 17:17:00 GMT 1
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Post by meldrew on Aug 11, 2012 17:22:51 GMT 1
Hello meldrew, Hoo boy, there goes my job security around here! BTW i put the plug in the jug 12 yrs. ago.; sometimes I wish I hadn't LOL. I, like you, have done many google searches. The last two I tried to be more specific out of some minor frustrations. I typed in: "kondair trislander incidents archive forum" and got the Forum guys. Then I typed in: "pilots flying for kondair" and got this: squib.homestead.com/eti-24.pdfA very interesting paper in and of itself. The fact that the research facility was mentioned in it was pure happenstance. Do I get to keep my job ? job? well its not for me to say, keep it up mate, any good finding needs to be double checked thats all,
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2012 17:31:13 GMT 1
Hello uforn,
Thank you for the links. It just makes my blood boil when I think of the ineptitude involved in both attempts. How utterly botched both jobs were and how easily they were slapped down. Okay, enough of that.
Weekends are a tough time to contact sources in our Trislander Case so patience could be it's own reward here, eh?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2012 18:11:41 GMT 1
Hello All,
Just thought I'd try and organize some thoughts here on the metal fragments found in or embedded in the plane. The original report stated that of the three recovered items one was "similar" to a tire valve. The other two were cylindrical with one of those two being "magnetic". The damage to the plane was investigated after it landed in Amsterdam's airport (designation AMS) where it is assumed the fragments were also collected. Jenny Randles' inquiry was addressed and she was given a photograph of what she said was a nut, bolt, etc that appeared to look like unused items as they didn't seem to have any marks. Nonetheless though, maybe out of policy the fragments were taken to the Defence Evaluation Research Agency. So it would seem in a nutshell that the folks there took one look and said, "Oh, look, nuts and bolts." took a photo and gave a copy to Jenny upon request. Sound about right so far?
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Post by meldrew on Aug 11, 2012 18:24:59 GMT 1
the photos that jenny randles talks of are a moot point, reason being she asked for the photos, between asking and receiving the photos the time it would take to photograph any thing and tart it up to make it look metallic and foreign,you could knock something up in minutes photo it and who's to know, I would take them photos with a very large pinch of salt,
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2012 18:34:51 GMT 1
Hello meldrew,
You are right of course. My post was putting it together on face value only according to the various sources. I evidently still need to learn the words and phrases that would have given my post the facetious cynicism I was trying for; but failed miserably to convey.
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Post by meldrew on Aug 11, 2012 19:01:00 GMT 1
we need to find out how and who took the debris from Amsterdam to Farnborough, were special agents involved or just some guy who works in freight and knows nothing, there are so many holes in this its astounding, if this was a film, it would have a beginning but no middle and definitely no end, why did the pilot carry on across the north sea after he got BUMPED above Ipswich, Ipswich at that time had a fully functioning civilian airport, surly CAA rules would have required him to report it and land to be checked out, not fly off over 100 miles of the north sea, what cargo was he carrying that was so important to carry on. add any other questions you think of, I bet there's loads.
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Post by uforn on Aug 11, 2012 19:05:19 GMT 1
Im still thinking of this FOI request.
The original report for this case came from an FOI in the first place, from the CAA. In there report they say CAA Closure: No information recieved concerning the nature or origin of the UFO.
Now if the debris was sent to DERA then I believe this is where to file an FOI. It looks like theyve changed the name to Defence Science & Technology Laboratory which is a Govt run facility.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2012 19:21:18 GMT 1
Hello uforn,
Attaboy! Go get 'em! Meldrew, you read my mind on the return of the debris and the condition of the aircraft. How would anyone know whether or not fuel tanks had been involved. One of the reasons I wanted to pursue the guys on that Forum is because they may have in fact loaded G-BDOS themselves. In any case repairs were probably performed at AMS so was a special trip made by the CAA, or a mechanic from Kondair, or a tech from the Britten-Norman MFG Co.? In other words WHO brought the debris back to the UK?
One thing is certain though. The records of all that stuff is out there. Meldrew, this is your baby, say the word and I'll get on the Forum and we can, as you said, create a very carefully laid out avenue of inquiry should the members in question still be active. It's why I thought finding that thread was "significant".
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2012 19:37:33 GMT 1
P.S.
I've seen comments from several years ago on other Forums during my searches but we have taken it much, much further. Really makes me glad to be here. This incident took place 28 years ago! But who's counting.
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Post by uforn on Aug 11, 2012 19:55:08 GMT 1
we need to find out how and who took the debris from Amsterdam to Farnborough, were special agents involved or just some guy who works in freight and knows nothing, there are so many holes in this its astounding, if this was a film, it would have a beginning but no middle and definitely no end, why did the pilot carry on across the north sea after he got BUMPED above Ipswich, Ipswich at that time had a fully functioning civilian airport, surly CAA rules would have required him to report it and land to be checked out, not fly off over 100 miles of the north sea, what cargo was he carrying that was so important to carry on. add any other questions you think of, I bet there's loads. Ive just been over the FOI report, and the plane carried on because the pilot checked his aerodynamics and all work well, it was only when it came close to amsterdam that he noticed there was a problem with the right engine controls. I guess during the flight he never needed to use the engine controls.
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Post by meldrew on Aug 11, 2012 20:27:18 GMT 1
we need to find out how and who took the debris from Amsterdam to Farnborough, were special agents involved or just some guy who works in freight and knows nothing, there are so many holes in this its astounding, if this was a film, it would have a beginning but no middle and definitely no end, why did the pilot carry on across the north sea after he got BUMPED above Ipswich, Ipswich at that time had a fully functioning civilian airport, surly CAA rules would have required him to report it and land to be checked out, not fly off over 100 miles of the north sea, what cargo was he carrying that was so important to carry on. add any other questions you think of, I bet there's loads. Ive just been over the FOI report, and the plane carried on because the pilot checked his aerodynamics and all work well, it was only when it came close to amsterdam that he noticed there was a problem with the right engine controls. I guess during the flight he never needed to use the engine controls. I think we should check out the rule book on this, as an ex traindriver I can tell you there are rules for every eventuality when it concerns health&saftey and the transport industry.
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Post by meldrew on Aug 11, 2012 20:36:32 GMT 1
Hello uforn, Attaboy! Go get 'em! Meldrew, you read my mind on the return of the debris and the condition of the aircraft. How would anyone know whether or not fuel tanks had been involved. One of the reasons I wanted to pursue the guys on that Forum is because they may have in fact loaded G-BDOS themselves. In any case repairs were probably performed at AMS so was a special trip made by the CAA, or a mechanic from Kondair, or a tech from the Britten-Norman MFG Co.? In other words WHO brought the debris back to the UK? One thing is certain though. The records of all that stuff is out there. Meldrew, this is your baby, say the word and I'll get on the Forum and we can, as you said, create a very carefully laid out avenue of inquiry should the members in question still be active. It's why I thought finding that thread was "significant". I'm not sure thats the forum that can help at the moment hiflier, from a memory that just popped into my head is there a forum called pilots/whistleblowers, or anything along that line, any thoughts on this line of enquiry judge ?
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Post by uforn on Aug 11, 2012 21:02:55 GMT 1
Hello uforn, Attaboy! Go get 'em! Meldrew, you read my mind on the return of the debris and the condition of the aircraft. How would anyone know whether or not fuel tanks had been involved. One of the reasons I wanted to pursue the guys on that Forum is because they may have in fact loaded G-BDOS themselves. In any case repairs were probably performed at AMS so was a special trip made by the CAA, or a mechanic from Kondair, or a tech from the Britten-Norman MFG Co.? In other words WHO brought the debris back to the UK? One thing is certain though. The records of all that stuff is out there. Meldrew, this is your baby, say the word and I'll get on the Forum and we can, as you said, create a very carefully laid out avenue of inquiry should the members in question still be active. It's why I thought finding that thread was "significant". I'm not sure thats the forum that can help at the moment hiflier, from a memory that just popped into my head is there a forum called pilots/whistleblowers, or anything along that line, any thoughts on this line of enquiry judge ? I think its a waste of time to be honest. We need to find out what the results of the analysis were. The debris is key to this case. Jenny said she got the photo of the debris from the CAA. We may need to contact them and ask for this photo so that we can see whats what.
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Post by meldrew on Aug 11, 2012 21:24:55 GMT 1
I'm not sure thats the forum that can help at the moment hiflier, from a memory that just popped into my head is there a forum called pilots/whistleblowers, or anything along that line, any thoughts on this line of enquiry judge ? I think its a waste of time to be honest. We need to find out what the results of the analysis were. The debris is key to this case. Jenny said she got the photo of the debris from the CAA. We may need to contact them and ask for this photo so that we can see whats what. fair opinion ,
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2012 22:30:02 GMT 1
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Post by uforn on Aug 11, 2012 22:34:19 GMT 1
There you go case closed. Nice work hiflier
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