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Post by dbh on Oct 30, 2012 21:58:30 GMT 1
Source NTDTV
What can we say we really know about history? Well, it seams not a lot. What we think we know is constantly changing in light of new discoveries. A recent carbon dating performed on a pyramid in Bosnia, proves it to be at least 25 thousand years old. Most scientists and historians however believe that human civilization started about 5,000 years ago with the Sumerians and Babylonians. That is, until artifacts were found, which predate them. These discoveries suggest, that there was a pre-historical civilization around the world- one that must have been highly advanced. Two Italian archaeologists, Dr. Ricarrdo Brett and Niccolo Bisconti found a piece of organic material on the Bosnian Pyramid. They were able to carbon-date the material and with it the pyramid itself. This carbon dating puts the pyramid 20 thousand years before the Sumerian and Babylonian “civilizations.” When the Bosnian Pyramid was first discovered in 2005, researchers could only measure the age of the topsoil covering the pyramid, which is about 12 thousand years old. [Dr. Semir Osmanagich, Researcher of Bosnian Pyramid]: “The organic materials found on the Sun Pyramid and biological analysis are telling us that the pyramids are older than 12 thousand five hundred years. The oldest on the planet.” You may be wondering how such a huge pyramid could have remained undiscovered in Europe for so many years. Until its discovery it was just known as Visoko hill. That’s right, they thought it was a hill, which is not surprising considering it’s size, and the fact that it is covered with topsoil and vegetation. No entrance to the pyramid has been discovered so far, but an intricate network of tunnels underneath the pyramid are slowly being uncovered.
[Dr. Semir Osmanagich, Researcher of Bosnian Pyramid]: “Under the valley of the pyramids in Bosnia, there is the most extensive underground tunnel network. It runs for tens of miles. And in those tunnels, the discovery of huge ceramic blocks reaching 18-thousand pounds in mass.”
There are still scientists and archaeologists who appose the idea of ancient civilizations before five thousand years ago.
However this latest finding supports the theory that highly advanced civilizations existed before the beginning of our current one.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2012 23:46:06 GMT 1
Hello dbh,
Any clues on what the organic material was?
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Post by dbh on Oct 31, 2012 1:18:34 GMT 1
Yes, it was a french fry from McDonalds.... kidding. I really have no idea, sorry. I will look around and see if I can find a better solution.
It should be noted, the structure has a wall that is facing within 1 degree of perfect north and other reports on the net talk about containing tunnels that are 10 of miles long. When I have more time, I will attempt to post more official information.
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Post by meldrew on Oct 31, 2012 8:39:00 GMT 1
you know you can take part in the dig during summer months, you have to pay to take part, you have to pay for board and lodging, and you have to pay your passage, don't forget spending money and labouring for an agreed 5 hours a day seems like a holiday from hell lol, the apres dig though can be called a drink n drug shagfest, or so I've heard, the source was someone who went out there for 2 weeks, with so many unchecked worker/holiday makers going there I would worry about finds being planted for high jinx purposes or something more sinister, so the Macdonalds fries could well be waiting to be found
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Post by meldrew on Oct 31, 2012 12:44:32 GMT 1
Carbon Dating Carbon dating is a variety of radioactive dating which is applicable only to matter which was once living and presumed to be in equilibrium with the atmosphere, taking in carbon dioxide from the air for photosynthesis. Cosmic ray protons blast nuclei in the upper atmosphere, producing neutrons which in turn bombard nitrogen, the major constituent of the atmosphere . This neutron bombardment produces the radioactive isotope carbon-14. The radioactive carbon-14 combines with oxygen to form carbon dioxide and is incorporated into the cycle of living things. The carbon-14 forms at a rate which appears to be constant, so that by measuring the radioactive emissions from once-living matter and comparing its activity with the equilibrium level of living things, a measurement of the time elapsed can be made. Carbon Dating Presuming the rate of production of carbon-14 to be constant, the activity of a sample can be directly compared to the equilibrium activity of living matter and the age calculated. Various tests of reliability have confirmed the value of carbon data, and many examples provide an interesting range of application. Carbon-14 decays with a halflife of about 5730 years by the emission of an electron of energy 0.016 MeV. This changes the atomic number of the nucleus to 7, producing a nucleus of nitrogen-14. At equilibrium with the atmosphere, a gram of carbon shows an activity of about 15 decays per minute. The low activity of the carbon-14 limits age determinations to the order of 50,000 years by counting techniques. That can be extended to perhaps 100,000 years by accelerator techniques for counting the carbon-14 concentration. Carbon-14 Equilibrium Activity Since living organisms continually exchange carbon with the atmosphere in the form of carbon dioxide, the ratio of C-14 to C-12 approaches that of the atmosphere. From the known half-life of carbon-14 and the number of carbon atoms in a gram of carbon, you can calculate the number of radioactive decays to be about 15 decays per minute per gram of carbon in a living organism. Radioactive carbon is being created by this process at the rate of about two atoms per second for every square centimeter of the earth's surface." Levin The rate of production of carbon-14 in the atmosphere seems to be fairly constant. Carbon dating of ancient bristlecone pine trees of ages around 6000 years have provided general corroboration of carbon dating and have provided some corrections to the data. Reliability of Carbon Dating Bristlecone Pine Trees From the dating of ancient bristlecone pine trees from the western U.S., a correction curve for the carbon dating over the range back to 5000 BC has been developed. Trees dated at 4000 BC show the maximum deviation of between 600 and 700 years too young by carbon dating. Glacier Measurements Prior to carbon dating methods, the age of sediments deposited by the last ice age was surmised to be about 25000 years. "Radiocarbon dates of a layer of peat beneath the glacial sediments provided an age of only 11,400 years." These examples are from The Earth Through Time, 2nd Ed. by Harold L. Levin Krane points out that future carbon dating will not be so reliable because of changes in the carbon isotopic mix. Fossil fuels have no carbon-14 content, and the burning of those fuels over the past 100 years has diluted the carbon-14 content. On the other hand, atmospheric testing of nuclear weapons in the 1950s and 1960s increased the carbon-14 content of the atmosphere. Krane suggests that this might have doubled the concentration compared to the carbon-14 from cosmic ray production. Accelerator Techniques for Carbon Dating Accelerator techniques for carbon dating have extended its range back to about 100,000 years, compared to less than half that for direct counting techniques. One can count atoms of different masses with a mass spectrometer, but that is problematic for carbon dating because of the low concentration of carbon-14 and the existence of nitrogen-14 and CH2 which have essentially the same mass. Cyclotrons and tandem accelerators have both been used to fashion sensitive new mass spectrometer analyses. The tandem accelerator has been effective in removing the nitrogen-14 and CH2, and can be followed by a conventional mass spectrometer to separate the C-12 and C-13. A sensitivity of 10-15 in the 14C/12C ratio has been achieved. These techniques can be applied with a sample as small as a milligram. hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/nuclear/cardat.html
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uforn
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Post by uforn on Oct 31, 2012 14:26:54 GMT 1
I watched this discussion a while ago, quite interesting. Quote: Alex G talks to Sara Acconci and Nigel Grace about the discovery of the Bosnian Pyramid and explain how these structures are awakening new conciousness and their relationship to evolution and the universe. |
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rc4VmJp6qy4
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2012 23:11:11 GMT 1
Hello all,
One of the things to consider in the carbon dating process is that cosmic ray bombardment from say a supernova or gamma ray bursts or even a large solar prominence can load up the atmosphere with an abundance of 14C. It result in an estimate of age that is younger as organic matter will possess more carbon14. The ice cores from the two Greenland as well as in the Antarctic at locations such as Vostok, Dome C etc. do show bombardments at around 11,500 and 5,300 years ago. Just my 2 cents. This was backed up by reading the beryllium 10 isotopes as well which are also a product of Cosmic ray bombardment interacting with the atmosphere.
Edited: for crappy spelling and adding last sentence.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2012 1:36:46 GMT 1
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Post by meldrew on Nov 1, 2012 13:51:03 GMT 1
www.gizaforhumanity.org/scientific-analysis-of-the-bosnian-valley-of-the-pyramids/this link is worth a read, here is an excerpt. YEAR 2008- Organic material (piece of wood) was found in conglomerate material that covered megalithic block in the tunnel. Sample was radiocarbon tested in Kiel Lab in Germany (31,000 years old) and Gliwice Lab in Poland (34,000 years old). Shocking results warned that advanced human activities were present in central Bosnia at the same time like ingenious cave paintings in Spain and France (32,000 years ago). Physicist Dr. Anna Pazdur of Poland’s Silesian University announced the news at the Press Conference in Sarajevo in August of 2008- Great number of archaeological artifacts has been found during the four years of excavations. Further cleaning in the underground tunnels confirmed huge artificial network from the pre-historical times. Samples of core drilling from the Bosnian Pyramid of the Sun and Vratnica tumulus have shown properties of the best quality concrete (analysis by Institute for Materials of the University of Zenica, Bosnia and Institute for Civil Engineering of the University of Sarajevo, Bosnia) First International Scientific Conference about the Bosnian Valley of the Pyramids was held in Sarajevo on August 25-30, 2008. More than 50 experts from Egypt (20 leading archaeologists, geologists and Egyptologists,), China, Saudi Arabia, Russia, Poland, Croatia, UK, Austria, Bosnia and Montenegro concluded/recommended: so going by that, its been known that these pyramids date back 25,000 + years since at 2008, why the hoo-ha now I wonder.
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Post by dbh on Nov 1, 2012 14:21:56 GMT 1
Great find, thank you!!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2012 0:16:30 GMT 1
Hello All,
Thought this would be of some help from Wikipedia:
Scientific explanations Osmanagiæ's claims, widely reported in the mass media, have been categorically refuted by a number of experts, who have accused him of promoting pseudo-scientific notions and damaging archaeological sites with his excavations. Amar Karapus, a curator at the National Museum of Bosnia and Herzegovina in Sarajevo, said "When I first read about the pyramids I thought it was a very funny joke. I just couldn't believe that anyone in the world could believe this."[1] Penn State University Professor Garrett Fagan is quoted as saying "They should not be allowed to destroy genuine sites in the pursuit of these delusions[...] It’s as if someone were given permission to bulldoze Stonehenge to find secret chambers of lost ancient wisdom underneath."[12] Boston University's Curtis Runnels, an expert in prehistoric Greece and the Balkans states that, "Between 27,000 and 12,000 years ago, the Balkans were locked in the last Glacial maximum, a period of very cold and dry climate with glaciers in some of the mountain ranges. The only occupants were Upper Paleolithic hunters and gatherers who left behind open-air camp sites and traces of occupation in caves. These remains consist of simple stone tools, hearths, and remains of animals and plants that were consumed for food. These people did not have the tools or skills to engage in the construction of monumental architecture."[13]
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Post by meldrew on Nov 3, 2012 14:10:50 GMT 1
hiflier, are you hinting that the Bosnia Pyramids are fake ? I suggest that you are, if it is so then make your case sir.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2012 17:38:25 GMT 1
Hello meldrew, I'm not saying the Bosnian pyramids are fake at all. There are real enough but only in as far as the they are pyramid shaped natural formations. The Bosnian countryside is loaded with them. The so-called Pyramid of the Sun amounts to little more than a hill composed of gravelly material. At the supposed time of their "construction" Cro-Magnon had been in the area for about 15,000 years and Neanderthal was already extinct. The last time it was this warm on the Planet was 125,000 years ago then the temperature plummeted until aroung 12,000 years ago. Starting roughly 28,000 y.a. until 25,000 y.a. cenrral Europe saw average temps 4C lower than now, mostly open land with few areas of trees (fuel, shelter) so the ability to support a large civilization under stress was unlikely. Most of the birds of that time were ground types and tree pollen was at 20%. Even though there were moist periods most of the time it was an arid, cold environment. These conditions prevailed over much of central and northern Europe. Little in the way of tree cover and mostly arid conditions says to me that food would have been scarce and that the agricultural middle East would have influenced greatly where our ancestors lived. At 26,000 years ago Juniper shrubs started to take hold in the open steppe areas to replace tree populations that were dying out. Not too good if you ask me. That was followed by a full glacial around 22,000 y.a. until 14,000 y.a. with forest and woodland nearly non-existent mexcept for isolated pockets. Grassland was sparse in which even southern Europe was covered in semi desert. Wind and desert storms across much of Europe were the norm. NOT a place to be building the largest pyramid in the world; conditions were simply too harsh over such an extended period of time, permafrost was the norm. www.esd.ornl.gov/projects/qen/nercEUROPE.html edited; to add link
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Post by meldrew on Nov 3, 2012 18:17:35 GMT 1
well I admit to being sceptical on this, I also admit to my lack of knowledge on this, which stops me calling foul, the scientific analysis makes a good case, but something doesn't sit right, I think I have a problem with the carbon dating, I thought a piece of wood had to have at least 50 growth rings to be a possible candidate for carbon dating, and it doesn't say where the material that was analysed originated from.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2012 18:30:07 GMT 1
Hello meldrew, I also admit to not being 100%. The climate data says no BUT? Anyway more research is needed. To perhaps put a vivual on what I'm saying maybe these can help:
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2012 18:41:57 GMT 1
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Post by meldrew on Nov 3, 2012 18:42:17 GMT 1
I agree, more research needs to be done, by us that is.
until then I say neither yey or nay.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2012 18:44:38 GMT 1
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2012 18:48:18 GMT 1
Hello meldrew,
As you can see I'm still workingt out the bugs of uploading pics. Had it once, don't know what happened, probably don't do it enough to be good with it.
What say we get some emails out to some really good geologists. I will contact one that I know and let's get the ball rolling.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2012 19:16:34 GMT 1
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uforn
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Post by uforn on Nov 3, 2012 21:11:22 GMT 1
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Post by meldrew on Nov 3, 2012 21:26:37 GMT 1
judge are you suggesting the Bosnia Pyramids are a hoax ? before we have researched.
I don't belieeeve it lol
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uforn
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Post by uforn on Nov 3, 2012 21:33:09 GMT 1
judge are you suggesting the Bosnia Pyramids are a hoax ? before we have researched. I don't belieeeve it lol I thought Id save yous all the hassle
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2012 21:39:34 GMT 1
Hello uforn,
Attaboy!
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Post by meldrew on Nov 3, 2012 21:43:10 GMT 1
cheers mate, I will go for a lie down instead,lol
hiflter the game is not afoot, its a load of cobblers,
yet another case put to bed (which is where I'm going)
;D
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2012 22:05:02 GMT 1
Hello meldrew,
Sounds good to me too. Gosh darned geology is hard work!
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Post by meldrew on Nov 8, 2012 17:33:06 GMT 1
more pyramid stuff, this time from Indonesia, I know some of you like this sort of stuff, this one is a tad dodgy to be honest. US lab validates Cianjur ‘ancient structure’ theory[ /b]A recent analysis of carbon-dating by the Miami-based Beta Analytic Lab has apparently validated findings by a government-sanctioned team that a man-made structure, buried under Mount Padang in Cianjur, West Java, is older than the Giza pyramid. Carbon-dating test results from the Miami lab show that the structure could date back to 14,000 BC or beyond. The lab used samples of sand, soil and charcoal found at a depth of between three and 12 meters beneath the mountain’s surface. The Giza pyramids were constructed around 2,500 BC. “The analysis of the Miami lab dismisses doubts over an earlier test conducted by the National Nuclear Agency [Batan]. There is no more doubt that the structure beneath Mount Padang is older than the Giza pyramid,” geologist and member of the Mount Padang research team Budianto Ontowirjo said on Sunday. A group of researchers, coordinated by President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono’s special advisor on disaster mitigation and social assistance Andi Arief, commissioned a study about the ancient “structure” “buried” under Mount Padang at the beginning of this year. Andi reportedly believes Indonesia was inhabited by people with sophisticated technology after he found much evidence beneath the land and sea around Sumatra, Java and Bali. Yudhoyono has given his support to the project. In February, the group published its findings, claiming that the structure might change the history of the nation as we know it. Indonesia’s history might well start before 4 AD. “If the structure beneath the mountain is naturally constructed, then the age revealed by carbon-dating process should have been much greater,” Budianto said. Any natural material buried between three and 12 meters under the surface should have been millions of years in age, Budianto said. The fact that the material beneath Mount Padang is relatively young indicates that it probably is man-made. Besides the result of the carbon-dating, Budianto and his colleagues also claim that they had found other concrete evidence to show that pre-historic men might have erected structure in the mountain. “We found motives in the forms of tiger’s claws or a kujang [dagger], which are engraved on the stones there. We suspect they are letters to mark the stones,” he said. Earlier this year, the preliminary finding was met with criticism and objections by a larger group of geologists and archeologists. Activists have also called the project a waste of the state’s budget as it has spent billions of rupiahs. Environmentalists, meanwhile, have expressed concern that the research could damage the ecosystem around Mount Padang. Meanwhile, archeologist Ali Akbar of the University of Indonesia said that it was premature to conclude that the Mount Padang structure was man-made. Ali said that before drawing such conclusion, the team would need to start a massive excavation project to unearth the whole structure beneath the mountain. Early indications show however, that the structure was probably man-made. “Found at the site were blocks of stones which are neatly placed three meters beneath the ground. I suppose they were not naturally placed there,” Ali said. www.thejakartapost.com/news/2012/11/05/us-lab-validates-cianjur-ancient-structure-theory.html
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Post by dbh on Nov 8, 2012 17:56:27 GMT 1
very interesting... thank you!
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Post by meldrew on Nov 8, 2012 20:58:18 GMT 1
I'm not sure if this is relevant, I have done some work on miscarriages of justice, due to this I found that the most corrupt countries the top 4 infact have featured in threads posted over the last few days, Indonesia was number 5 I think, the number 1 on the list is Somalia, expect something from there soon to complete the top 5
off on a tangent ;D
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Post by dbh on Nov 8, 2012 22:40:05 GMT 1
can you please share the other 3?
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