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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2012 3:52:09 GMT 1
Hello All,
When the time comes in which an investigation of some sort becomes desired or necessary how does one know where to begin? Obviously looking at whether or not anyone else has already done the work ahead of time is helpful. A search of the subject of the proposed research then would be of some value. If it turns out that no attempts have been made or, if made then made without success, then it would be beneficial to lay out a method of approach that has steps that build on each other toward the goal of solving the issue(s) in question.
The first step of course is identifying the object of the chase. The next would be identifting the objective of the research itself. I know this probably sounds a little simplistic but sometimes initiating research is all about frame of mind and if one starts off with the easy stuff then accomplishing the easy stuff will give impetus for the long haul should things become tedious or found to be long term down the road. Once the focus of the subject is determined and the goal of the investigation clarified then it is time to create the methodology of the pursuit.
So we need an example and have one that was the subject of another thread. The UFO that many describe as an orb. Sounds simple enough as what could be so complicated about an orb? That particular thought has resulted in little attention given the subject when compared to other shapes. This thread could be one in which the research into these seemingly mundane and relatively "boring" UFO shapes could be done here in the public eye with public input as well as generating some of the finer points and avenues to follow in the attempt at solving this unique enigma.
I believe it's time to discuss the next phase of the investigation. What might be the next logical move that might ensure that one doesn't skip a critical step going up the ladder toward solving the mystery? As ideas come in then perhaps a line of investigative order could come to light that would help in organizing the step-by-step format for attaing the goal of solving the orb problem. We have a subject, we have a definition of the desired end result. Next?
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Post by meldrew on Nov 17, 2012 9:04:49 GMT 1
this is another orb thread, I don't belieeve it lol
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Aelius
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Post by Aelius on Nov 17, 2012 10:06:06 GMT 1
Sorry Hiflier, your credibility dropped after your last facade.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2012 14:39:43 GMT 1
Hello meldrew,
I promise, no YouTube. Actually this isn't a thread about orbs. It's a thread about laying out a process for doing research. Setting up an outline for investigation helps keep things flowing and should consist of a logical framework by which work on a subject, any subject, might follow. For instance. I think the next step in the process would be to list two general categories: Consistencies vs. inconsistencies. The same sub-categories would be listed for each.
Consistencies would list Size, Color, Number in group, Speed, Direction, Duration etc. Inconsistencies would list the same things.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2012 15:03:25 GMT 1
Hello Aelius,
I agree not everything I do is perfect but I have good intentions. I also would like to think I'm growing up a bit as well. Being somewhat naive WRT the subject of UFO's and Aliens certainly didn't help either, eh? Oh well, live and learn. Thanks.
This being a research Forum I was thinking that a research plan would encourage more involvement. Especially if there was a set of guidelines. By the way, which fasade were you you referring to? I've had several LOL.
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Post by meldrew on Nov 17, 2012 15:08:00 GMT 1
what about we go back a few steps, lets think about frame of mind, if your a believer in the subject then what ever evidence you may find, you dispel it with the same tired solution, lets look at why if science can't prove it then it doesn't exist, the sceptics point of view, the real reason you are biased, no amount of research will be of any good to someone who has already made up their mind. Iv'e come across a few researchers who need a reality check, who believe everything they see and hear, thats no good is it, Iv'e come across researchers who dispel everything, thats no good either, the first step on the research ladder is frame of mind, the second step is to learn how to research, the third step is to research the researchers.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2012 15:27:42 GMT 1
Hello meldrew,
All good points. My guess is most read reports and see things on YT and of course Forums. The subject of UFO's too can be as polarized as politics. We've all seen it .And I also agree frame of mind can either be a boon or a bane depending on one's own integrity. But I have to say that this thread I hope will be beneficial in setting the stage for research no matter what one believes. It should essentially only be a set of raw data with out room for embellishments. Could someone slant the data? Of course, so yes, researching the researchers is a good step but If you are the researcher, or want to be a researcher, Then weighing the reasons for investigation is the point I think you're trying to make.
So, where does one get the info for the first two categories? My thought and what I have done is go to the databases of the major reporting organizations, selecting a shape (in this example orbs) and reading all the reports taking whatever data is in each one and entering it into a log
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Post by meldrew on Nov 17, 2012 15:35:58 GMT 1
if I was to teach research I would start with a case that has lots of information out there to research, I would start my class with the Hill abductions, I would say go and research that, then write me an essay on it, then we could pick it to pieces, I think that would be a good start.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2012 15:39:42 GMT 1
Hello All,
So. How big should the log be? Obviously a would-wide log would be huge so one could break it down into regions if desired to get the data to manageable size. Just for an idea pick say Australia, or France, Europe in general, or the U.S. The idea being to keep the process going and to stay away from being overwhelmed. If working with others then each could concentrate on a region and combine the data later.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2012 15:47:10 GMT 1
Hello meldrew,
Sorry wrote my post before yours was here. Researching an individual case does not really establish a pattern. The kind of research I'm describing is meant to do just that by creati ng a bigger picture. Focusing on one case can and probably would come later once a pattern might possibly present itself. Then one may be able to wade into a case with more background on the dynamics of say abductions- which by itself could end up possessing a pattern. The long-run idea behind this kind of approach, which has only been sporadically attempted, is to establish an UFO methodology and attempt to remove the apparent randomness of events.
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Post by meldrew on Nov 17, 2012 16:05:22 GMT 1
well I don't think orbs is the way forward, its not exciting stuff is it ? a club dj has to keep the dance floor, if you can keep this project going researching orbs then I will eat my pants, (thats under pants or kegs) lol
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2012 16:12:41 GMT 1
Hello meldrew
LOL! OK. But I will say just to clarify the point this isn't about researching orbs. You can substitute any shape you wish into this thread. It's more about research methodology. IF one were to pich saucer shapes instead the methodology would be the same. This thread is about setting up the process of doing the research no matter what it is. I just chose orbs as an example to use. For instance, I'm researching Black Triangles but I'm using the same method this thread is describing.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2012 16:23:50 GMT 1
Hello All,
Once the scope of the work has been decided upon WRT geograpgic criteria it will then be good to pick a time frame for the research. 50 years? Five years? The decade between 1980 and 1990? I think too large a timeframe will result in the project not being completed. Too short might not give a good enough indication of pattern. Again if working as a group individuals can take increments and add them into the total at a later date. This is where it become critical. As you can see the tighter the detail the more tedious the work becomes. Time will be the most important aspect of the entire project because that more than any other piece of data will bring to light the goal of pattern recognition.
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Post by meldrew on Nov 17, 2012 16:28:52 GMT 1
you know what, I'm a bit lost here, I'm researching stuff I've already researched, as I've forgotten loads, so how you going about it, whats your game plane ? don't we all do it different ? if it works for me it might not for you, it takes time to gain experience, its sometimes a little thing tucked away some where that sets the alarm bell ringing, a lot of hunches and pointless searching, hours and hours of boring mind numbing nothing, then excitement, then deflation when you find out its a hoax or swamp gas. we are a strange breed lol.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2012 16:48:58 GMT 1
Hello meldrew,
As you know it's all about data but more than that it's all about organizing the data. Individual reports are fine but unless the characterics described in each report are catalogued int time frames established then pattern is never going to surface. The goal of research is to get an answer of some kind. Since there has not been an answer for over 60+ years one has to wonder why not? I seriously think it's got a lot to do with the random nature of events that the public has experienced. Where is the form? Where is the pattern? Where is the chronology? None of those things exist. The method described in this thread addresses those issues by setting up a program of research with the goal of establishing pattern to what up until now has been a percieved choas. If Aliens are present here and have been present here then I honestly doubt there is chaos in there method of cataloguing this planet and it's inhabitants. There must be order to their investigations. the process of research into determining that order is what this thread is aiming at.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2012 17:09:06 GMT 1
Hello All,
Allow me to give an example of the database I'm working on. It's for the U.S. only and has 93 headers going across the top. 50 of those headers are the different states. Those are set up so that a sort can be performed if one wishes to see Black Triangle events for individual states only. There are other headers that contain nav lights. Lots of those headers, one for each type of light configuration so that the data can be sorted WRT lighting. The list goes on: Different sound catagories, dates, times etc. All of which can be sorted according to the sort criteria one selects. For instance I can sort for the state of California and then do a sub-sort for California to include only3 white lights and one red followed by another sub-sort that reduces the criteria further to only include the humming sound. I'm doing this to cover the entirs U.S. for the time period of 2004-2012. In the end I estimate the entire project will include about 90,000 individual pieces of data. But most importantly it WILL produce a chronology of those events that currently exists nowhere else. A pattern has been slowly energing but the most revealing has been that I haven't so far seen more that three BT's at one time. If in the end I would be able to maybe predict where the next sighting locations might be because of pattern recognition then even better.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2012 17:18:44 GMT 1
Hello All,
Since I haven't seen a black Chevy Suburban with black-out windows sitting in my driveway yet then I guess there is nothing to worry about LOL.
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Post by meldrew on Nov 17, 2012 17:32:53 GMT 1
I get your drift now
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2012 17:55:17 GMT 1
Hello All,
So, let's finish this up. Depending on the size of the region being investigated one may encounter what I think is the chief obstacle to the research project other than the sheer boredom from entering the raw data gleaned from the many reports. That being the time and date elements. I have found that reports by and large are filed with the events depicting the local timeframe for the region in which the occurance took place.
So in order to gain an accurate record of any chronology for any location it will be necessary to transfer any time/date information into a universal format such as the UTC which is not necessarily synonymous with Greenwich Mean Time. Most time zones change there time according to season so that must be taken into account and the local event times adjusted accordingly. It's the ONLY way to establish true chronology over a large region of study.
Currently no database has that information as they do not practice a method of recording events in a universal time format. So that particular effort must be done by the researchers themselves within their databases. Also researchers need to access several databases during the event recording process as witnesses do not as a rule contact every UFO reporting center when somethig is sighted. And at the risk of simplifying the project that's all there is to it.
After that one will have a chronologically oriented project that contains all aspects of color, sound, location, direction of travel, date, time, and any other criteria one wishes to include in the effort to produce a complete picture of whatever shape one in investigating. Of course it will be only as accurate as the data available but it will be more accurate than anything else available to the general public. If anyone is serious enough to take the process that far then the UFO Community-at-large will have probably the best look at the phenomenon WRT UFO shape that they will ever have. What would be left after that? In an ideal world all the shape databases would be combined into a master chronological work to include everything from every kind of report available.
A tall order to be sure but then anyone could research anything at that point and find all there is to know about just about anything. AND patterns would be present for setting up observation locations and groups with sensing equipment based on prediction possibilities. In a perfect world this could exist.
Edited to put in paragraphs
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Aelius
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Post by Aelius on Nov 17, 2012 20:00:42 GMT 1
To be honest, I don't believe Orbs have anything to do with UFO's.
To me, it's just crossing two topics into one which really don't have a firm base to build upon.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2012 20:41:41 GMT 1
Hello Aelius,
Does anything UFO? If you don't believe orbs fall into the UFO category then might you clarify why you believe so?
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Post by meldrew on Nov 17, 2012 21:01:05 GMT 1
Hello Aelius, Does anything UFO? If you don't believe orbs fall into the UFO category then might you clarify why you believe so? I said the same thing on the other thread, I treat orbs as the same as pixies, fairies, angels, willo the wisp, I think there is more to big foot than orbs, it should be in that band or category of anomalist phenomena, ghosts, witches, nessie, mermaids/men ect ect
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2012 21:34:27 GMT 1
Hello meldrew,
Not NESSIE! Good grief, is there not one morsel of sensibility around here?
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Post by meldrew on Nov 17, 2012 21:51:13 GMT 1
there is no sense no, I will not collect data on non ufo related phenomena, why are orbs involved with ufos is my question, there not unidentified they are orbs, usually dust on the lense, what connection is orbs with ufos, you need to make a case as to why we should treat orbs as ufo hiflier ol chap.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2012 22:27:56 GMT 1
Hello meldrew,
You are right of course. As was dbh who started the whole thing. Which brings up an interesting point. That being how did he get out of it and me get stuck with it?
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Post by meldrew on Nov 18, 2012 0:01:57 GMT 1
Hello meldrew, You are right of course. As was dbh who started the whole thing. Which brings up an interesting point. That being how did he get out of it and me get stuck with it? lol, I've started a poll to see whether orbs should be on topic or off topic, as a democratic chap I will go with the majority, well I hope to go with the majority as long as they are right lol and your idea is way to huge for me, your talking Bletchly Park type of operation, just visit nicap, that has enough to keep anyone going for years. If I had staff and all that.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2012 0:30:56 GMT 1
Hello meldrew,
NICAP is a great site to be sure, probably the bes one IMHO. But as great as it is it doesn't come close to even what my own measly little project is trying to do. I looked around the net for months it seems since last winter for anything similar so lazy me wouldn't have to do the work. It's just not out there anywhere, at least publicly, so.....oh well, what can I say.
Chronologies just dont exist at the extent that is helpful by any stretch. If one wants one then one has to create it and I wanted one. I still find it unbelieeeeeevable that they're inportance has been so overlooked after all these years. Question for you then. Do you think that a chronology of all types of sightings from the beginning would have resulted in things being any different today WRT what folks believe or know abut the subject as a whole? I think even if started only 20 years ago that the TYPE of research done today even by us would be very different.
I still find it incredulous that no one has thought to do such a thing except sporadically. And even in those cases the gaps and mixing of UFO types leaves one totally in the dark WRT any perceived pattern of operation. Sad.
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Post by meldrew on Nov 18, 2012 0:45:08 GMT 1
I thought about it, but there are too many inconsistencies and uninvestigated claims for it to be of any good, a lot of this research game is instinct and experience, and knowing whos who helps a lot.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2012 0:49:56 GMT 1
Hello meldrew,
I know what you mean but without some kind of chronology there is nothing but a big random scene. With one the gap in timing closes up quite a bit and I think it's at east helpful if not valuable knowledge. Good point though.
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Post by meldrew on Nov 18, 2012 1:02:58 GMT 1
well I don't work like that, I take one case at a time, I did try once to put police data with what happened at Bentwaters, that turned out that a disc was seen by police descending into a lake 150 miles away, on the same night, no one cared lol
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