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Post by meldrew on Jul 31, 2012 20:11:35 GMT 1
basically there are compartments within compartments when it comes to getting any information, Yes I also know this to mate, this is why this enquiry will take months if not years. The department I posted above is where to start, we need to get a letter sorted, if you write one and I write one well combine the best of both then file an FOI request. See where we get. yes you go first lol
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uforn
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Post by uforn on Aug 1, 2012 13:20:13 GMT 1
Any idea what agencies are monitored/directed by the US Gov't?
I applaud you and uforn for doing all you do. I do not pretend to know about it because I don't. Which is why i talk/question alot.
With kids starting school in a few days, I'll have 8 hrs a day 5 days a week for 9 months without much to do. So if you guys want me to do something for you just holler. Youll regret you said that lol, there's always something I need help with researching, Ive got a couple of projects started that need finishing, which could take months.
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belle
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Post by belle on Aug 1, 2012 13:53:38 GMT 1
Youll regret you said that lol, there's always something I need help with researching, Ive got a couple of projects started that need finishing, which could take months. I can start the 15th of this month. If you want to email me between now and then with what you would like me to do. The only other thing I'm working on is genealogy research. I ususally devote a couple hours a day to that.
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Post by meldrew on Aug 1, 2012 14:41:23 GMT 1
will you two knock it off and concentrate with the job in hand ;D on the pilot report. I saw somewhere the name capt Coyne mentioned but I'm not sure that is the right name at all. cruising at FL50 I presume is a west to east flightpath at 5000 ft, am I right on this ?
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uforn
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Post by uforn on Aug 1, 2012 22:41:46 GMT 1
will you two knock it off and concentrate with the job in hand ;D on the pilot report. I saw somewhere the name capt Coyne mentioned but I'm not sure that is the right name at all. cruising at FL50 I presume is a west to east flightpath at 5000 ft, am I right on this ? Yeah thats a totally different case altogether mate, the Coyne Incident case involved a helicopter. The Coyne case occured on october the 18th 1973, Its got nothing to do with this case, the Coyne case is here: uforesearchnetwork.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=gotopost&board=witness&thread=1321&post=1551 tho Ive not fully researched it yet there is loads more to it but thats a different thread altogether.
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belle
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Post by belle on Aug 2, 2012 21:28:45 GMT 1
will you two knock it off and concentrate with the job in hand ;D on the pilot report. ;D LOL ok Meldrew I will attempt to keep the task at hand. I just sent the report to someone on my side of the pond. If this person can get a hold of the info over here if it is not listed top secret then this person should be able to get something as this person is very interested in things that are unexplainable. Sorry about the use of the word 'this person' but i'm not comfortable givin name or gender or how the info is gathered.
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belle
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Post by belle on Aug 3, 2012 7:25:55 GMT 1
Nothing about it was sent over here. Sorry I couldn't help.
Have you been able to trace his route and get a name where he made stops?
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Post by meldrew on Aug 4, 2012 9:24:29 GMT 1
Nothing about it was sent over here. Sorry I couldn't help.
Have you been able to trace his route and get a name where he made stops? ah but you have helped belle, we now know theres no news on this in the States. the route is a short hop, about an hour from London Stanstead to Amsterdam, Ipswich where the incident occurred is about 25 miles from Stanstead, with military bases in the area this makes the skies very busy in the Eastern corner of England.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2012 5:55:03 GMT 1
Hello All,
Would it help to pursue which lab is usually the go-to for this type of analysis? If it's a gov't facility then perhaps once again a FOIA could be generated. If the lab is private it probably will be a dead end. In the U.S. more and more stuff is becoming privatized in the attempt to circle the wagons so to speak.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2012 5:58:50 GMT 1
Hello All,
Could be a good opportunity for Nick Pope to have a chance to shine up his tarnished reputation a bit, eh? Drop the boy a line.
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Post by meldrew on Aug 9, 2012 8:25:58 GMT 1
hello hiflier I have no doubt nick pope will know nothing about this, and even in the remotest chance he does, he wouldn't say anything unless the government has made the details available to the public, which they haven't, and the thought of nick pope getting the credit for this is to much to bear lol I think the government research facility at Porton Down would be the likely place the testing would have been done, that is as long as the Dutch authorities quite happily handed everything over to the British, the main problem is finding the exact department responsible, maybe a professional researcher would be able to help, Timothy Good or Gary Hesletine for example, but we've only been on the case for a short time, another problem we have is there are no cases like this that we are aware of, so we have no precedent to follow.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2012 16:35:27 GMT 1
Hello meldrew,
Thanks for your thoughts. The Ubatuba case comes to mind WRT to the type of testing that may be employed. If I'm not mistaken, metallurgy requires things like chrystalography, and chemical spectroscopy for learning structure and composition as you probably already are aware of and not many facilities outside universities perform such tasks. Without a precedent sort of order of things to follow then I agree a pro should be consulted. You may only get one chance to get this right. Plus, I understand that the spectrographic process does require the destruction of material.
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uforn
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Post by uforn on Aug 9, 2012 18:59:30 GMT 1
Really ? Meldrew and hiflier - why would you need to get a pro involved in this? We havnt even tryed ourselfs yet. None of us have filed an FOI request. I think your jumping the gun alot
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Post by meldrew on Aug 9, 2012 19:38:10 GMT 1
Really ? Meldrew and hiflier - why would you need to get a pro involved in this? We havnt even tryed ourselfs yet. None of us have filed an FOI request. I think your jumping the gun alot I was thinking if we come up against brick walls then we could solicit some help from a pro, I did say we have only just started on this case, but if all fails then someone like Timothy Good with his inside contacts might be able to help, if we end up in a cul-de sac that is.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2012 20:47:30 GMT 1
Hello uforn,
You are right there but in the initial stages of an investigation presenting preliminary thoughts and ideas is just part of the brainstorming process in the effort to align the method of pursuit. Didn't mean to jump in here but the case is intriguing. Besides, with a 15% warning level and zilch for karma what have I got to lose?
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Post by meldrew on Aug 9, 2012 21:11:15 GMT 1
Hello uforn, You are right there but in the initial stages of an investigation presenting preliminary thoughts and ideas is just part of the brainstorming process in the effort to align the method of pursuit. Didn't mean to jump in here but the case is intriguing. Besides, with a 15% warning level and zilch for karma what have I got to lose? ;D only 15%, I for one am pleased your getting involved hiflier, you mention the ubatuba case, one of my favourites as that too has artifacts, the difference being that that research was done privately, no CAA involved, there is a similar case to that from Wales called the Berwyn mountain incident, supposedly a crashed UFO was retrieved and taken to Porton Down. now we know this incident did happen as it is in the government records, what were the results of the test and who tested the artifact is what we want to know, all other air accidents have the findings available but this one doesn't, what is the reason for this non disclosure, anyone know a pilot who might be able to shed some light on this, judge you know some highly placed dudes in BUFORA have you mentioned any of this to them?
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uforn
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Post by uforn on Aug 9, 2012 21:42:18 GMT 1
Hello uforn, You are right there but in the initial stages of an investigation presenting preliminary thoughts and ideas is just part of the brainstorming process in the effort to align the method of pursuit. Didn't mean to jump in here but the case is intriguing. Besides, with a 15% warning level and zilch for karma what have I got to lose? The initial stages? I thought we were past that and moving on. Hiflier why have you brought your warning level up? If you have a problem with why you got it then pm me, we "both" know why you got it!!!
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uforn
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Post by uforn on Aug 9, 2012 21:45:51 GMT 1
judge you know some highly placed dudes in BUFORA have you mentioned any of this to them? Ive been out the loop for a while mate, Ive not had contact with anyone from there for a while.
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Post by meldrew on Aug 9, 2012 22:16:31 GMT 1
lets get the first FOI's drafted then, I have a feeling that they will say they have no knowledge of this incident, and they won't say where to go next, it may well be highly classified under a never to be released to the public clause, my reason for thinking this is the fact there are no findings of the investigation published unlike all other aircraft accidents, I've never had much faith in the FOIA system what with the reasons given to other researchers ie the files got eaten by mice or they got ruined in storage or misplaced/lost when the department involved relocated, I simply just don't trust them.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2012 23:07:35 GMT 1
Hello uforn,
Good grief, it was a tongue in cheek joke. Meldrew got it right away. Tell you what, I'll just forget the UFO case in question here altogether okay? I'll disappear again and no harm done. But before I go, the debris in question was evidently brought to the Meteorological Office to see if someone could identify it as perhaps being part of some radio sonde equipment. The MO said they couldn't identify it as such. Maybe there's a record of the examination in Meteorology Office records or a photo. Also no unusual Eastern Radar contacts at the time either. See ya.
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uforn
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Post by uforn on Aug 10, 2012 0:16:32 GMT 1
Hello uforn, Good grief, it was a tongue in cheek joke. Meldrew got it right away. Tell you what, I'll just forget the UFO case in question here altogether okay? I'll disappear again and no harm done. But before I go, the debris in question was evidently brought to the Meteorological Office to see if someone could identify it as perhaps being part of some radio sonde equipment. The MO said they couldn't identify it as such. Maybe there's a record of the examination in Meteorology Office records or a photo. Also no unusual Eastern Radar contacts at the time either. See ya. Hello hiflier, Well going off past posts I thought you were trying to be funny, my mistake, please accept my apologies If you really want to help you could do so by contacting the NTSB, as they could well have had something to do with this along side the AAIB.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2012 0:17:10 GMT 1
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Post by meldrew on Aug 10, 2012 9:15:57 GMT 1
Don't be so sensitive hiflier, I've known you get a lot more grief in the past so lets all put the arguing in the past. the more information of any kind on this case can only help not hinder, thanks for the link en.calameo.com/read/00058403774823d9aafa9pages 143/146 it seems jenny randles has tried to investigate this case, she managed to contact the airline and the pilot (who still remains unknown to the rest of us) and she has seen pictures of said debris, it also seems this case was handed over to the MOD for analysis, the pilot can only assume it was a weather balloon, the CAA were asking has anyone got an idea, well the MOD could not help and could only surmise it was space junk or military objects ? I don't buy any of it especially the weather balloon theory, remember this happened at 5000 ft and it wasn't a UK weather balloon stated by the met office, so a weather balloon released by another country would have soared well above 5000 ft by the time it drifted over Ipswich, he (jenny that is) makes no mention of an FOI request, she does go on to say that this is the only case of a UFO collision with an aircraft ever reported over the UK, and after 2 years he still had no more information to add. Admin Note:Edit to remove offensive quote
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Post by meldrew on Aug 10, 2012 11:05:48 GMT 1
I live where this incident occurred, in the surrounding area at the time was a civilian airport (ipswich now closed) RAF Wattisham, USAF Bentwaters, USAF Woodbridge, all with radar, not far away is USAF Mildenhall, RAF Lakenheath, plus research stations at Orford (nuclear missile development) and Bawdsey where radar was devolped, so if an incident happens here it will be investigated, a few years ago I saw a beachball size UFO sphere hovering 20 ft up in a 30-40 mph wind beside a main road, my point being UFOs come in all shapes and sizes so a small object like I saw might not bring a plane down but may cause damage as in this case. on the subject of FOIA under Exemption 1 of the Code of Practice on Access to Government Information which relates to classified material under the category “defence, security and international relations” and under Exemption 2 which relates to “internal opinion, advice, recommendation and deliberation.” I understand the documents with held under Exemption 2 comprise briefings to Ministers less than 30 years old. another thing between 1982 and 1994,was the period when Nick Pope was an executive officer in the secretariat.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2012 18:01:17 GMT 1
Hello uforn,
Sorry about the rant. I'm just coming off of a Forum that for six weeks was dealing with some of FIGU/ Billy Meier's "agents" so my tolerance level as a result was a little thin. Plus, it was the night before a 6am appendectomy. You know when it rains..... Anyway, recuperating well and am home.
Your idea WRT the NTSB is a good one so count me in there! BTW since when are UFOs assembled with nuts, bolts, valve stems, and magnets? LOL! Also, the impact supposedly took place over the Rendlesham Forest area according to meldrew's link.
Peac
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uforn
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Post by uforn on Aug 10, 2012 18:22:24 GMT 1
Don't be so sensitive hiflier, I've known you get a lot more grief in the past so lets all put the arguing in the past. the more information of any kind on this case can only help not hinder, thanks for the link en.calameo.com/read/00058403774823d9aafa9pages 143/146 it seems jenny randles has tried to investigate this case, she/he managed to contact the airline and the pilot (who still remains unknown to the rest of us) and she has seen pictures of said debris, it also seems this case was handed over to the MOD for analysis, the pilot can only assume it was a weather balloon, the CAA were asking has anyone got an idea, well the MOD could not help and could only surmise it was space junk or military objects ? I don't buy any of it especially the weather balloon theory, remember this happened at 5000 ft and it wasn't a UK weather balloon stated by the met office, so a weather balloon released by another country would have soared well above 5000 ft by the time it drifted over Ipswich, he (jenny that is) makes no mention of an FOI request, she does go on to say that this is the only case of a UFO collision with an aircraft ever reported over the UK, and after 2 years he still had no more information to add. Very nice find meldrew Ill take a look at this see what I can get and will get back to you. It might be worth getting in touch with Jenny Randle see if she will give us any additional info on this case, find out how far she went ?? This case might not be as mysterious as we think it is. Edit to remove offensive quote
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uforn
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Post by uforn on Aug 10, 2012 18:27:22 GMT 1
Hello uforn, Sorry about the rant. I'm just coming off of a Forum that for six weeks was dealing with some of FIGU/ Billy Meier's "agents" so my tolerance level as a result was a little thin. Plus, it was the night before a 6am appendectomy. You know when it rains..... Anyway, recuperating well and am home. Your idea WRT the NTSB is a good one so count me in there! BTW since when are UFOs assembled with nuts, bolts, valve stems, and magnets? LOL! Also, the impact supposedly took place over the Rendlesham Forest area according to meldrew's link. Peac No probs If you can contact the NTSB about this that would be great hiflier, see what they know if anything at all. They probably know nothing but Ive watched countless Aircraft Investigation documentarys and these guys are always involved reguardless of the accident when it comes to aircraft accidents.
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Post by meldrew on Aug 10, 2012 18:54:10 GMT 1
err that nice find was by hifiler, I have been trying to navigate the gov files released last month but couldn't find anything, also I have been reading about requesting info from the MOD from researchers, nearly always (if they get a reply) the reply is "the MOD do not investigate reports of UFOs, which we know is rubbish. the MOD also change the name of the department involved every couple of years or so, Initially, Defence Secretariat 8 (or DS8 - replaced in 1984 by Air Staff 2A) who were responsible for MOD UFO investigations, The civil servants who served in the secretariat 1982-4 Pam Titchmarsh DS8a 1984-5 Andrew Mathewson/Brian Webster DS8a don't know if this is any help but these people would know something about this I reckon. here's a bit more useless information DI 55 - a defence intelligence branch responsible since May 1967 for advising Air Staff on scientific and technical aspects of UFO reports. DI 55 were a branch of the MOD’s Directorate of Scientific and Technical Intelligence (DSTI) who have been involved in the investigation and assessment of UFO reports since 1950. PS/ACS (Ground) - a branch of the RAF's Ground Environment division based at RAF Stanmore, Middlesex. Along with Airborne Early Warning (AEW), RAF Ops (GE) has responsibility for maintaining 24-hour radar coverage of the UK Air Defence Region. “Radar establishments in the area.” - These included the Sector Operations Centre (SOC) at RAF Neatishead at Wroxham Broad, Norfolk, the central military radar responsble for Air Defence in southern England and Eastern Radar (RAF Watton), a joint military/civilian air traffic control station responsible for air traffic above the complex of joint RAF/USAF bases in East Anglia. hiflier I noticed a few mistakes in the jenny randles book, the incident didn't take place over Rendlesham Forest, it took place over Ipswich which is aprox 12 miles away, she also said Chernobyl happened in may 86 when it was april 26 86 and Leiston is a tiny village when infact it is a medium size town, all in 2 pages which is a bit shite for a professional researcher and ex topman/woman of BUFORA ;D post modified to add useless information ;D
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2012 20:49:14 GMT 1
Hello meldrew,
Mistakes like that really hurt investigators who are not up to snuff and/or not familiar with the geographics. Given her credentials it surprises me a bit as well. Gosh you guys are even thorough enough to vet the pros! Nice to be aquainted.
Hello uforn,
Filled in the detailed information into the NTSB's submission form and got back no matches. Ill copy the filled-out form here if anyone wishes to see it. Could be an email is in their immediate future- from me.
BTW, I've been meaning to ask, is there a thread on the Forum that deals with the "ET" petition presented to the White House? If so would you be kind enough to link it?
modified: for spelling, maybe I should try the SP/CK feature?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2012 22:15:30 GMT 1
Hello, unforn, meldrew, and All. ,
Just as an aside, I'm in correspondence with the Photographer who took that 1982 picture of the Trislander in this case. He was curious WRT which Forum so I linked this thread in the second email. I erred at first in not seeing that permission to initially use the photo was needed and therefore hurriedly sent off a request to post it here which he was kind enough to grantt. I did however explain my idiotic oversite concerning this to him in a follow-up email.
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