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Post by uforn on May 25, 2011 14:34:21 GMT 1
Were Soviets behind Roswell UFO? Annie Jacobsen is the author of "Area 51." By Alan Boyle Investigative journalist Annie Jacobsen's new book, "Area 51," suggests that the Soviets stirred up the Roswell UFO incident in 1947 by sending flying disks into New Mexico with child-size aviators on board, as a warning that they could spark a UFO panic if they wanted to. But will that explanation fly?Jacobsen's revelation is based on an account from just one unnamed source. This source said he was an engineer with the company EG&G at Area 51, the hush-hush military research site in Nevada. He told Jacobsen that he studied the remnants of the Roswell crash in 1951, along with four other EG&G engineers. There are no documents to confirm the account — because, Jacobsen says, this was one of the most tightly held secrets of the Cold War. Even though that confirmation is lacking, Jacobsen says she stands by her source's amazing account. "He had nothing to gain and everything to lose by telling me," she told me, "but it was a matter of conscience for him." Jacobsen's source recounted what he says he saw, as well as what he was told and what he surmised based on that information. Here's the scenario presented in "Area 51: An Uncensored History of America's Top Secret Military Base," based on the source's account: •After World War II, the Soviets capitalized on the work being done on stealthy flying-wing aircraft by a group of Nazi German engineers headed by two brothers, Walter and Reimar Horten. They developed disk-shaped flying machines that could sporadically evade radar detection. The U.S. military perfected such technology at Area 51 over the decades that followed to produce planes such as the F-117 stealth attack aircraft. •Soviet leaders were spooked by the U.S. military's use of the atom bomb to bring the war to a quick close. They were a couple of years away from developing their own atomic weapons, based on secrets stolen from the U.S. bomb effort. The Roswell incident was aimed at warning the Truman administration that the Soviets could create a UFO hoax, stirring up fears similar to those that were sparked inadvertently by the fictional "War of the Worlds" radio broadcast in 1938. •Jacobsen's source believes that the Soviets dispatched flying-disk drone aircraft from a mothership flying near Alaska. Intermittent radar signals were picked up by U.S. installations, but the disks were nevertheless able to enter U.S. airspace and come down near Roswell, N.M. •"Child-size aviators" were aboard the disks: humans, seemingly about 13 years old, who may have been surgically or biologically altered to give them enlarged heads and eyes. Jacobsen quotes her source as saying he was told that the alien look-alikes were the result of experiments conducted by Nazi mad scientist Josef Mengele. The bodies were recovered from the wreckage, and two of them were alive but comatose. •The wreckage and the bodies were transported from New Mexico to Wright-Patterson Air Force Base in Ohio for study, then transferred again to Area 51 in Nevada. This is where Jacobsen's source saw them in 1951. The source is quoted as saying he saw Russian writing stamped on a ring that went around the inside of the aircraft, and that he saw the child-size bodies on a life support system. •When Jacobsen asked why President Harry Truman didn't report all this in 1947, she said the source replied, "Because we were doing the same thing." She notes in the book that the Atomic Energy Commission and the Defense Department carried out human experiments on the effects of radiation, and suggests that the hundreds of experiments revealed in 1995 were just the tip of the iceberg. "I believe that a lot of what the Atomic Energy Commission did was reckless and dangerous," she told me. This latest explanation runs counter to the scenarios put forward by the federal government — first, that the Roswell wreckage came from a weather balloon, and then that it was debris from a crash-test dummy drop as well as a balloon-borne experiment to monitor nuclear blasts. It also runs counter to the long-held claims by UFO activists that the crash actually represented a covered-up visitation by extraterrestrials. Drawing fire from both sides As such, Jacobsen's Roswell account is taking fire from UFO skeptics as well as those who give the alien scenario more credence. In a novel twist, Clifford Clift of the Mutual UFO Network told the Santa Fe New Mexican that the linkage to German aerospace technology was too tenuous to be believed. "Area 51: An Uncensored History of America's Top Secret Military Base" delves into decades' worth of hush-hush programs. "After researching the claim, I found little truth in this theory," he said. "It is a stretch. One of my concerns is if they wanted to create panic, why in New Mexico and not in New York where there are more people to panic? I would suggest it is another conspiracy theory, and heavens, MUFON knows about conspiracy theories. They do sell books." Peter Davenport of the National UFO Reporting Center said he also was skeptical about Jacobsen's account, although he stressed that he hasn't yet read the entire book. "People have been studying the Roswell case for decades now," he told the New Mexican. "They've got deathbed testimony. They've got testimony from military officers who were involved, eyewitnesses. I think I'll go with the latter, rather than this young lady who penned this new book." Investigator Kal Korff — who took aim at the alien claims in his 1997 book, "Roswell UFO Crash" — said he wasn't buying the "Area 51" story either. "Of all the crazy ideas as to what is behind Roswell, this is one of the most extreme out there," he told me in an email. Beyond the substance of the story, there's the issue of basing such a dramatic story on one person's account. "I would never report anything related to UFOs based on only one unnamed source!" journalist Leslie Kean, the author of "UFOs: Generals, Pilots and Government Officials Go on the Record," wrote in a Facebook update. Jacobsen told me that getting the story out of even one of the five engineers who were involved in the Area 51 follow-up to the Roswell incident was a months-long job. "What's important to understand is that all of the top five EG&G engineers had top secret clearances and also Q clearances. ... So you're dealing with the most upper-echelon clearances you could possibly have within the federal government, in the Atomic Energy Commission. Your 'need-to-know' is so strict that you only know what you know. ... To suggest that the five engineers could stand around and discuss, 'Hey, what do you think is,' is a bit naive," she said. "It's 'take this craft apart and put it back together ... take these bodies and move them over here.' And that is about the extent of it." It's also important to understand that there's a lot more to "Area 51" than Roswell. The Roswell tale, which takes up about 30 pages of the 544-page book, is the only one that depends on a single unnamed source, Jacobsen said. Most of the book focuses on the stories behind formerly secret programs ranging from nuclear bomb tests to the development of the U-2 and A-12 Oxcart spy planes. To this day, military officials avoid referring to Area 51 by that name. The gorilla-mask scenario So if the Roswell UFO wasn't an alien (or Soviet) intruder, and if you don't buy the official explanation that it was a balloon experiment, what else might it have been? One of the alternate explanations is that the "UFO" was indeed a flying disk, but that it was a U.S. rather than a Soviet experimental craft. In this scenario, the alien-looking bodies might have been dummies designed to create a preposterous cover story. Jacobsen herself refers to a similar disinformation strategy that the Air Force used in 1942, when the first jet aircraft were being developed at California's Muroc dry lake bed. She said one of the test pilots for the Bell XP-59A jet plane, Jack Woolams, put on a gorilla mask when he went on a flight — just in case other pilots training on different planes came flying nearby to take a look. www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFHe4jQIbm8&feature=player_embeddedYouTube video provides views of the German-built Horten Ho 229 flying wing. Does flying-wing technology explain the "flying disk" supposedly involved in the Roswell UFO incident?"Instead of seeing Woolams, the pilot saw a gorilla flying an airplane — an airplane that had no propeller," Jacobsen wrote. "The stunned pilot landed and went straight to the local bar and ordered a stiff drink. He told the other pilots what he'd definitely seen with his own eyes. His colleagues told him he was drunk, that he was an embarrassment, that he should go home." Thus was the secret of the Bell XP-59A preserved, even from the other fliers at the Muroc base (now known as Edwards Air Force Base). Were the Roswell aliens actually dummies, the equivalent of pilots wearing gorilla masks? Or is Jacobsen's source correct? Is the truth more monstrous than people thought? Even though the eyewitnesses are dying off, Jacobsen believes the real story may be contained within the hundreds of millions of documents about "black" projects that are still said to be classified. She notes that all of the sources she consulted while researching "Area 51" told her they knew much more than they were telling. "Everyone always ends with, 'Well, Annie, I've actually told you 5 percent of what I know,'" Jacobsen said. Is the truth out there? Or will it remain mired in reams upon reams of conjecture and disinformation? Source: cosmiclog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/05/24/6704655-were-soviets-behind-roswell-ufo-
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Post by Electra on May 30, 2011 0:57:27 GMT 1
AREA 51 BOOK EXPOSED: SOURCE FOR ROSWELL STORY NAMED AND INTERVIEWED! by Anthony Bragalia
Friday, May 27, 2011 Annie Jacobsen’s recently released bestseller Area 51 has stirred global interest. She has been featured numerous times on many networks and websites. Her book was reviewed last week by the New York Times. Jacobsen’s biggest “scoop” concerns the Roswell crash. She learned from an early executive of one of our nation’s largest defense contractors that the Roswell crash of 1947 was resultant from a scheme by Russia’s Josef Stalin and escaped Nazi mad-scientist Josef Mengele to “hoax” the Americans by staging UFO sightings. The plan was to induce panic and psychological warfare in the manner of the Orson Welles War of the World broadcast aftermath. They would launch unusually-designed craft from a “mothership” (located near Alaska.) These were single-wing, remote-controlled “UFOs” with “alien-like” children on board. The craft were of Nazi German design (captured by the Soviets at the close of the War) and the “aliens” were actually 13 year olds. The grotesque child aviators were biologically engineered by Mengele with strange large heads and oddly spaced eyes. The craft and pilots had crashed near Roswell in July of 1947 and were flown to Wright Field. In 1951, Jacobsen’s source maintains, the crashed vehicle and the two still-surviving deformed children were taken to Area 51 and to the facilities of defense contractor EG&G (now URS Corporation) This author has identified and located Annie Jacobsen’s anonymous source. I have also decided, after much consideration, to “out” him. In this article I will openly name him. I have also contacted him very recently. He reluctantly spoke with me for some time. I believe that the source was indeed told this bizarre story by officials. But just why this is so will stun readers, and is not for the reasons that you may think. JACOBSEN’S SOURCE NAMED EG&G’s Scientist Alfred O’Donnell in 1955 Ms. Jacobsen’s source about this Roswell story is unnamed by her in the blockbuster book. He wanted to remain anonymous. Annie Jacobsen kept her promise. I did not learn her source from her or from anyone associated with her publishing company. His identity and his background is revealed here and now: Alfred O’Donnell is nearly 89 years old and he is one of Annie Jacobsen’s key sources about this Roswell crash story “interpretation.” O’Donnell is indeed exactly who he claims to have been. In the early 1950’s he was at the “Nevada Test Site” where atomic bombs were tested regularly. O’Donnell was indeed part of the nucleus of top management and engineers for EG&G- one of our nation’s top defense contractors. Founded as Edgerton, Germeshausen and Grier (EG&G) the company was acquired by URS Corporation some years ago. URS employs over 50,000 and is the leading designer and builder of federal classified facilities in the United States. They work with military as well as with the Intelligence Community (particularly the NSA) in constructing and operating some of our nation’s most sensitive and secret facilities. O’Donnell joined EG&G in 1947 when the company employed only 15 people. He worked alongside the company’s founders and obtained Top Secret Clearance to work on our nation’s nuclear arsenal. He helped to develop explosives research protocols and optimized the firing systems of bomb devices. O’Donnell – a Bostonian - is a brilliant man who made significant contributions to EG&G and to our nation’s defense for many years. EG&G – and O’Donnell - had specialized expertise in electronically capturing and measuring the energy that was emitted from DOE nuclear blasts in the remote Nevada desert. THE SOURCE SPEAKS Transcribed Interview with Alfred O'Donnell, Formerly of EG&G May 26, 2011 (Afternoon) AO: Hello…
TB: Hi Mr. O’Donnell, my name is Tony Bragalia, a freelance journalist in Florida..How are you doing?
AO: Fine, and who are you again? (I repeat above)
TB:I’m a researcher, including of things like military history and the history of science. I happened to see an online article about an ‘Alfred O’Donnell’ that was from the Review-Journal. It’s called “100 Men Who Shaped Southern Nevada” It discusses your early work at EG&G in the 50s in nuclear blast testing and measurement.
AO: Oh, oh, yes… I do remember that. I recall that very well.
TB: It was written by a “ K.J. Evans”…
AO: Yes, he’s dead now. That article was written some time ago. Some years ago.
TB: It’s found its way onto the Internet so the story is everywhere now, forever…So I do have the right Alfred O’Donnell who was with EG&G in the ‘40s and 1950s?
AO: Yes, that’s me.
TB: Well, of course you must be aware then of the recent bestseller by Annie Jacobsen that is entitled Area 51?
AO: I am. (silence/pause)
TB: You know Annie?
AO: I do know Annie.
TB: Well you said something to Annie Jacobsen about the subject that I’d like to talk with you about…
AO: I don’t talk about my work at Area 51.
TB: Well, EG&G does not seem to be the kind of place that would be reverse engineering a Soviet craft and also doing biological experiments and analysis, there were better places….
AO: Well, you really need to speak with the Publicity Director at Little Brown.
TB: Why them?
AO: They published the book.
TB: What do they know more about all of this than you do?
AO: They don’t. But I’m not saying anything…
Tony, how…how did you find me?
TB: I am a researcher of some of these things. I think sort of like a computer when I am investigating. I googled key words. I happened across the article on you. I knew intuitively that you are Annie’s source, Alfred. And of course you are, so…
Alfred, you must realize that you have an obligation to truth and to history to come forward publicly. This is a much larger issue. It is about having people understand what really happened -if this is what really did- and to not believe in fantasies..things that aren’t scientific or historical truth…
AO: I know…I understand… what you’re saying, Tony.
TB: You know Alfred, I communicated with Dr. Stirling Colgate at Los Alamos recently and he made a recent confession about a UFO hoax that he was aware of from many, many years ago.
AO: Oh…
TB: Colgate is in his 90s and he’s still at Los Alamos. He confirmed to me that the famous Socorro, NM case involving a policeman in 1964 was a hoax by some of his students from New Mexico Tech. But it took him over 40 years to really say something! Colgate took to a real long time to tell the truth. And he still is reluctant…but his allegiance was in the wrong place for too long. It was to his kids at the college!…
AO: (Laughs) So how did you find out about him?
TB: Through a letter that I had found in some archives from Stirling Colgate to his friend Linus Pauling, who had an interest in UFOs I found out. In his reply, Colgate told Pauling the truth that it was a hoax.
AO: Who is that he wrote to?
TB:Linus Pauling.
AO: Oh! Yes…
TB: So my point is that we will all pass. And because of this we all have larger obligations as we get older. As a scientist you must understand this, truth is it. It’s really all that we want have in the end.
Will you leave anything - a document in writing to benefit history and science on all of this before you pass, including your name?
AO: I don’t know. I don’t think so.
TB: I think you must forget about your oaths and clearances. The Soviet threat is no longer. It is more than six decades on Alfred! I sometimes almost get emotional about all of this…doesn’t, does not truth mean anything? Why have our children’s children believe in fantasy, if this is what it was?
AO: I will think about it. I will give it some consideration…
TB: Alfred, have other people called you about this?
AO: I’m not going to say anything at all about that.
TB: Well, people come to very different conclusions that you do on all of this. The Air Force says that it is a Mogul balloon, others say it was a terrestrial secret experiment by German Paperclip scientists…
AO: Yes, I have heard about that one.
TB: Well, I will level with you Alfred. I come down on the side of truth - it was an extraterrestrial vehicle that crashed. And frankly I think that you know this and that you were “played with.”
I am certain that the craft was constructed of materials that were not known to science in 1947. I based this on many things including on my study of the history of Shape Recovery Alloys. They had reported they found “memory metal” at Roswell that was tough and would return back to its original shape. I found that in the months immediately following the crash that Wright Patterson contracted Battelle Memorial Institute to begin work on what we now know as Nitinol. I traced the scientific documents on Shape Memory metals to the incident. When you are reverse engineering, it is always easiest to begin with the ‘materials of construction’ –what is it made of- not the propulsion or navigation systems…
AO: Yes..I follow.
TB: And, Alfred, I will be candid with you: you must come forward. You are a man of science. You have lived for the discovery of truth. Why do you care now? Say what needs to be said. I mean I know you have. But openly. You know Annie is taking a beating on this. I frankly would like to know, as someone who believes in truth and accurate history…you are a man who honors science…you must know what I mean…
AO: Tony, look, I will say this to you: if the Federal Government really wanted to have all of this released, why would they not have already done it themselves?
TB: I don’t know. But you do Alfred. And I do respect your respect for your oath and your security clearances.
If we could get you a release from the Department of Defense to speak of this- of the truth of Roswell- would you then be open to speaking openly?
AO: No. I would not. I just…I just cannot get involved like that.
TB: Oh, one more last thing…
AO: Yes.
TB: Do you think that when URS acquired EG&G a few years back that they also got all of the early scientific and historical records from EG&G? I mean would they even know now? Many of the people there at URS now weren’t yet even born when this happened…
AO: I don’t know. I really have no idea.
TB: Again, Alfred, I have an understanding of the Intelligence Community –IC- and of the Defense communities, so I do understand where you are coming from. Thanks for all of your time, I really do appreciate it very much…
AO: OK, Tony, Goodbye.
TB: Goodbye. THE STRANGE STORY HE TELLS – AND WHY HE WAS TOLD IT I found Alfred O’Donnell to be telling the truth as he remembers it – and likely as he himself claims to have witnessed it. He was extremely lucid, deliberate and controlled in his responses to me. Frankly he seemed years and years younger on the phone. Like author Annie Jacobsen, I find O’Donnell to remain a bright and believable person. However, I do not believe that the “essence” of what he was told was true. O’Donnell says that he viewed a hoaxed UFO by Stalin that was used to scare us - and that used a former Nazi’s eugenics skills to create the aviators. O’Donnell told Jacobsen that they were “grotesque.” O’Donnell also told Jacobsen that he and his other scientist cohorts at EG&G were “prepared” for the sight of them. They were told in advance that “seeing the bodies would be a shocking and disturbing experience.” But the truth is this: It was all “staged.” O’Donnell was indeed “exposed” to what he says he was- but this “exposure” was planned, it was for a reason - and the accompanying story that he was told was not genuine. He was told that it was of Soviet origin. But “exotic technology” that has been recovered by military are often studied by using the “subterfuge” or “cover” of being told that they are of “Russian origin.” And this holds especially true for the Roswell crash. There are numerous times when the “Soviets” or the “Russians” were used to describe where such artifacts came from. They were a convenient and ideal “excuse” or reason for the study of such things: 1) When Elroy John Center (the Battelle scientist who confessed to analysis of ET metal debris and who co-authored the first “memory metal report” for Wright Patterson) was told to analyze the unusual “piece”- he was told by his Battelle supervisor that it was recovered in a crash from “the Soviets.” Center knew this not to be true and he believed the material could not have been made by man. (See prior articles on the Battelle-Roswell connection archived on the Iconoclasts site to learn more.)
2) General George Schulgen, in a 1947 secret memo, instructed his officers to be aware of UFO’s and their “Items of Construction.” He indicated that the discs could be of possible Soviet origin. Schulgen was of course using this as a cover. Forthcoming information on Schulgen will show that this top Pentagon Intelligence official of the time knew that the material of which the discs were comprised was not known to science- and were engineered by those from another world.
3) When RAAF Base Commander Butch Blanchard told his wife and daughter Dale of the crash, he kept on repeating to them: “those Russians have some amazing things.” New information from researcher Tom Carey indicates that the exact opposite was true: Blanchard actually believed that it was an ET craft at Roswell, something he related to his second wife and others later in life. The deepest recesses of Government were testing key personnel at emerging EG&G to see if they could be entrusted with such “remarkable secrets.” Would they say anything to anyone about this made-up Russian-Roswell scenario? They did not (at least not until a half-century later, and then only anonymously.) They could be entrusted with anything. And today the company is rewarded as the largest infrastructure firm to Federal government in the nation. More importantly this author maintains that: - Those in Government who knew about Roswell wanted to confuse the ET truth of the event to others with whom they may work by alluding to things “Russian.” It may have even been used as a “code word” of sorts. - They felt that it was also a perfect way to have studies performed on actual ET crashed disc material by private contractors. Tell them these strange things were Russian. Fold the research into existing defense related technology research. - They wanted to see if organizations that they would bring into the fold would keep such a pretend ‘Secret.’ And point to the Russians, feared and hated. - They would occasionally and selectively “test” individuals within government (and its contractor community) to measure the “reactions” and coping skills of learned men when exposed to such bizarre things - They “orchestrated” cover stories on Roswell to purposely confuse and obfuscate the issue. They sought to blur the ET truth of Roswell with layers of plausible deniability. They officially issued (and in other ways spread) many possible “real reasons” for the Roswell crash. In this way the actual extraterrestrial nature of the Roswell event will become “muddled.” O’Donnell was shown an American-hoaxed UFO and “aliens” for one (or some) these reasons. But it was not a “Soviet” thing that he saw. That he saw these things is likely true… but the associated story that he was told about their origin was not. The most telling reason that this is so is this: The story told to O’Donnell those many years ago –in historical hindsight- is ludicrous on the face of it. I will not detail those reasons. Many others (including the New York Times) have pointed out the many “holes” found like Swiss cheese within the story. These include fundamental logistical, technological and historical issues associated with the cover tale told O’Donnell. And there is this clue: O’Donnell told Jacobsen that “Cyrillic writing” found around a rim area in the craft had led he and his EG&G associates to confirm that the craft was of Soviet origin, so that the story that they were told by their superiors made complete sense. However, the fact is that the Russians would never have made such alleged “hoax overflights” of the US using anything like “Cyrillic writing” that would reveal the craft’s true Soviet origin. It would defeat the entire purpose of having our people believe that we were being invaded by “aliens” as O’Donnell maintains, like “Orson Welles’ War of the Worlds”- and so O’Donnell should never have found such writing. It was, rather, placed there by US military intelligence to encourage the belief that it was Russian. And O’Donnell was just 29 in 1951 when he states that he saw all of this at EG&G at Area 51. He was impressionably young, as were his EG&G colleagues. They would go on in their defense contracting careers believing all the while (and repeating late in life) the lie that they had been made to believe that these things were “Russian.” How very “Cold War-ish.” But given the context of the time frame of the late 1940s and early 1950s (and the fear of Russians, with “War of the Worlds” having aired only 10 years prior) it is easy to understand why O’Donnell and his EG&G colleagues “bought in” to this scenario fed them. Given the “tenor of the times” and the initiation of the Cold War, anything related to the devious Soviets could be believed at that time. And, tellingly, the “Russian” explanation that had been told by these EG&G retirees reminds one of the famous Kecksburg, PA UFO case of 1965. Some in Government offered the (now discredited) explanation that this crash incident was resultant from a Russian launch as well. That one though was explained away as the crash of an advanced Soviet satellite. Always the Russians… The story is strange. And the reasons that I have offered that I “believe” the old scientist may seem even stranger to some. I have more to report on this and I hope to release other findings soon… Roswell is an onion. We continue to peel away at its layers. But it still stinks and dizzies with the stench of disinformation, even after decades. Source:
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uforn
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Post by uforn on May 30, 2011 14:26:58 GMT 1
Good post Electra, nice presentation too
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Post by Electra on May 30, 2011 18:31:39 GMT 1
Thanks Judge, we have to keep the standard up. Now that there is a known name, it is possible now to go further into looking for more in-dept clues into the credibility of O'Donnell's claims. It seems that it was Mengele himself who told O'Donnell of the experimentation on the humans. So really when it comes down to it, it is only a tale on O'Donnel's part and relayed as a third account to Jacobsen.
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Post by meldrew on May 30, 2011 18:47:09 GMT 1
I thought I would wait for any evidence worth looking up, this sounds like something interesting but ends up the same old story, which is "I can't deny or confirm this", but well played to the investigators, we need to ask questions, even if someone is 92, lets keep an eye on this
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Post by meldrew on May 30, 2011 19:23:20 GMT 1
this is from the one of sites that I keep an eye on, which means I know how they post, and what their agenda is, if there is a small smell of a con then they jump on it, they don't check all avenues if you know what I mean. I don't think the Ruskies were behind it.
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uforn
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Post by uforn on May 30, 2011 19:26:02 GMT 1
Looking at electras post of the interview with O'Donnell, He doesnt make any claims to anything unless ive missed something ?
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Post by meldrew on May 30, 2011 19:35:22 GMT 1
Looking at electras post of the interview with O'Donnell, He doesnt make any claims to anything unless ive missed something ? no he doesn't, and what is there is just questions with no real answers, and the mention of the saying, they were fed disinformation, well that never looks good, I call a load of old flannel on this. unless something better comes to light.
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uforn
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Post by uforn on May 30, 2011 19:48:02 GMT 1
Looking at electras post of the interview with O'Donnell, He doesnt make any claims to anything unless ive missed something ? no he doesn't, and what is there is just questions with no real answers, and the mention of the saying, they were fed disinformation, well that never looks good, I call a load of old flannel on this. unless something better comes to light. Looks like another spin off, of Roswell without any substatial evidence to me but you never know
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Post by meldrew on May 30, 2011 19:58:05 GMT 1
no he doesn't, and what is there is just questions with no real answers, and the mention of the saying, they were fed disinformation, well that never looks good, I call a load of old flannel on this. unless something better comes to light. Looks like another spin off, of Roswell without any substatial evidence to me but you never know yes I see their point of view, but I've kept an eye on these chaps, and they post conflicting stuff, I've caught them out a few times, enough said.
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uforn
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Post by uforn on May 30, 2011 20:09:24 GMT 1
Looks like another spin off, of Roswell without any substatial evidence to me but you never know yes I see their point of view, but I've kept an eye on these chaps, and they post conflicting stuff, I've caught them out a few times, enough said. I dont mean to be a pain in the arse but have you got links and references to where and how youve caught them out mate?
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Post by meldrew on May 30, 2011 20:27:33 GMT 1
yes I see their point of view, but I've kept an eye on these chaps, and they post conflicting stuff, I've caught them out a few times, enough said. I dont mean to be a pain in the arse but have you got links and references to where and how youve caught them out mate? no I don't, they keep their posts for a week or so and then thats it, but the socorror case is one they keep trying to debunk, and they have made themselfs look right knobs,, we have to look at all sides to try and find the truth, the iconoclasts are a good site but can get it wrong sometimes.
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uforn
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Post by uforn on May 30, 2011 21:02:32 GMT 1
I dont mean to be a pain in the arse but have you got links and references to where and how youve caught them out mate? no I don't, they keep their posts for a week or so and then thats it, but the socorror case is one they keep trying to debunk, and they have made themselfs look right knobs,, we have to look at all sides to try and find the truth, the iconoclasts are a good site but can get it wrong sometimes. So where do your opions and thoughts come into this mate? Im juat trying to get an overview of everything presented here?
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Post by meldrew on May 31, 2011 12:53:29 GMT 1
my thoughts and opinion ? well when a roswell story comes out I check on peter robbins and kevin randle, they do a lot more than print a story, they cross check the small details to make sure the claimant was there at the time stated, in one case randles even tracked down a nurse who may have overheard a conversation, they are thorough in their research, where as this lady although better looking is not in the same league as a researcher, and one point I have is why did the old timer fail to answer questions to Anthony Bragalia, when he's already gone public with his claims? that makes me think somethings a bit fishy, kevin randles has done a piece on this. kevinrandle.blogspot.comAnnie Jacobsen, Area 51 and UFOs Okay, let’s see if I have this straight. In 1947, the officers and men of the 509th Bomb Group found the remains of a crashed flying saucer. They took parts of it to Fort Worth where Brigadier General Roger Ramey and one of his weather officers, Warrant Officer Irving Newton (seen here), identified it was a common weather balloon and radar reflector. The press, which had been very interested, suddenly couldn’t care less and didn’t ask how the highly trained officers of the only nuclear strike force in the world at the time could make such a stupid mistake. They didn’t wonder if the men with their fingers on the triggers might not be as trustworthy as everyone hoped. No, they bought the story and went on their way. Then Jesse Marcel Sr., who had been the air intelligence officer in 1947, began to tell ham radio friends that he had picked up the pieces of a flying saucer in 1947. Articles were written, followed by a book, but the Main Stream Media (hereafter MSM), yawned because they knew that there were no flying saucers The Air Force had said so. Interest in the Roswell crash built anyway and move articles and books were written. Television documentaries were made, many times without unnamed sources, but the actual people appearing on camera to tell their tales. MSM yawned because these were crazy old men and women whose memories were playing tricks on them. Besides, there were no flying saucers because the Air Force said so. But suddenly there was real interest and a New Mexico congressman began to ask questions about the Roswell UFO crash. He wanted an investigation into this. The MSM paid attention because Steven Schiff was a real congressman and that made the story credible... though why escapes me... which is not so say that I didn’t find Schiff credible. The Air Force investigated, issued a final report, and found that what fell at Roswell was a... weather balloon. Oh, no longer was it just a regular weather balloon, it was Project Mogul, so highly classified that not even the scientists working on it knew the name. This became the accepted truth because the Air Force said so. Of course Project Mogul (balloon launch seen here) was just regular weather balloons and rawin radar reflectors, just like the tens of thousands that had been launched all over the country for years and there was no reason to be fooled by them even if they were tied together in long arrays. Project Mogul turned out not to be so highly classified... just the ultimate purpose was. But the MSM bought the story because there were no flying saucers. The Air Force said so. No one in the MSM bothered to ask a couple of simple questions like, “If you’re investigating a UFO crash in New Mexico, why didn’t you interview the more of the men who were there at the time? Why just Sheridan Cavitt? Why not Brigadier General Arthur Exon? Why not Patrick Saunders? Why five men who worked on Project Mogul, some of whom weren’t even in New Mexico in 1947? No one in the MSM thought about that. “But what about the bodies?” someone, not a member of the MSM, asked. The Air Force came out with a second final report to explain the bodies. These were anthropomorphic dummies dropped during high altitude parachute and balloon tests in the 1950s. Never mind that the earliest any were dropped near Roswell was 1957 and that the dummies looked exactly like what they were. This is the solution and the MSM believed this nonsense because the Air Force said so. Then my friend (at least I think of him as a friend) Nick Redfern (seen here) said, “Not so fast.” He had uncovered information that suggested the recovery at Roswell was really the end result of experiments using deformed Japanese and some kind of experimental craft. At least this provided a reason for the cover up... not some kind of secret balloons. Not many accepted this and the Air Force remained silent. I think they had learned their lesson. Don’t get involved in these crazy flying saucer stories. Leave it to the kooks, which is not to say that Nick is a kook. But Redfern was wrong about this and we know because a “journalist” meaning a person with ties to the MSM has said that the Roswell crash was the result of a collaboration between Joseph Mengele and Josef Stalin using stolen Horten Brothers “flying wing” type aircraft to give it an alien appearance. Never mind that the Air Force had access to the Horten Brothers designs after the collapse of Nazi Germany and should have recognized the craft if that is what it was. But the MSM media listens to this because Annie Jacobsen, who is a contributing editor of the Los Angeles Times Magazine said that she interviewed a guy, who remains nameless and he said so. Deformed children the result of the horrific “experiments” of Mengele in some kind of Horten Brothers flying wing for the extraterrestrial flavor. Stalin thought this “War of the Worlds” scenario would create public panic, though I’m at a loss to understand what he would have gained by this. Did anyone ever notice that the Nazis and Stalin were enemies? Did anyone notice that Mengele had fled to South America and was no longer any sort of important person in 1947? Enough of this latest nonsense. I do not understand why the MSM will listen to this sort of uncorroborated crap, but will ignore the information provided by the men and women who were there. Clearly the MSM does not have a grasp of history, they don’t know that we, meaning the Roswell researchers looked at the Horten Brothers aircraft designs(seen here) (and that we know the flying wing is inherently unstable and didn’t work well until computers could compensate for the tendency of the craft to flip) and we looked at many alternative explanations. We can stop now because we have the answer... Stalin, Mengele, deformed children and a bizarre attempt to create a panic in the US is responsible for the crash... But when the Air Force buried the story, why didn’t Stalin pull a few strings at his end to interest the MSM? Why’d he let it die? And for those interested, I have said for years that the big secret at Area 51 was that it was where the next generation of military aircraft were tested. It has nothing to do with UFOs... but the MSM isn’t interested in that opinion either K. Randles.
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uforn
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Post by uforn on May 31, 2011 13:49:08 GMT 1
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Post by meldrew on May 31, 2011 14:09:02 GMT 1
yeah I saw that vid on the iconoclasts site, Paul Kimball and Bragalia have had a bit of a row over Bragalia's interview of the old chap in question, but kimball has pulled his posts now but it seemed quite fruity, Bragalia says he is in contact with several other EG&G sources, so there may be a bit more to come, hopefully with a bit more substance to back this story up, the researches I have read so far say this is a nonsense story.
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uforn
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Post by uforn on Jun 1, 2011 11:45:35 GMT 1
I think she has been fed dissinfo, UFO Researchers have been trying to get info on area 51 for years with only the likes of Bob Lazar and David Adair coming forward.
Yet she has found i think its 3 new sources ? Coming forward and telling all, I dont think so.
Also the Russians if they had this technology way back in 1947 there is no way they would have lost the cold war, and the part of deformed kids being the pilots is just ridiculous.
So my conclusion is this is dissinfo at its best
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